ECML IET issues

[whole diary]

[a-driver]

Issues with the IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan))’s aren’t just confirmed to GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway).  East Coast won’t be able to operate them on Electric north of York.  You couldn’t make this up.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-45435683

[Timmer]

Sorry no, I’m not surprised. What an expensive embarrassment this procurement and implementation has been.

[CMRail]

Wow.

And they have the buffets.

[bradshaw]

Roger Ford in Modern Railways has been tracking this for some time.

[SandTEngineer]

Yes, its that Train - Solid State Interlocking trackside module interference problem (again!).  Same problem as when EUROSTAR trains were introduced at the Southern end of the line way back in 1994!  Nothing new there for NR^» (Network Rail - home page)/DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) to learn then.....

[Timmer]

Roger Ford in Modern Railways has been tracking this for some time.

He's said right from the start of the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project. This will offer more capacity on routes, save money, give a consistent and safe service and meet customer requirements. Intended to replace HSTs.) project this was the wrong and expensive way to go and has been proved right IMHO^▸ ('in my humble opinion').

[bradshaw]

Detailed analysis in November MR^▸ (Midland Railway, or Motor Rail, depending on context).
Did the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) bring NR^» (Network Rail - home page) into the mix when specifying the IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan))?

[stuving]

Detailed analysis in November MR^▸ (Midland Railway, or Motor Rail, depending on context).
Did the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) bring NR^» (Network Rail - home page) into the mix when specifying the IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan))?

No need. There's a standard procedure, involving NR maintaining lists of track-based equipment, frequencies to protect, EMC^▸ (ElectroMagnetic Compatibility) levels, places it is used, etc., vice versa, etc., etc. But predicting levels of EMI in the real world can be tricky, especially with a new design of OLE^▸ (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") and train as you can't go and measure either half of the puzzle.

I also wonder whether you get conversations like:

(train) That's going to be hard to meet, now - trains are different from 40 years ago so your track won't have seen this stuff. We suspect you've never tried to to filter our frequencies out - will you have a look at adding that?
(track) Yes, but we aren't going to do a lot as the kit's due to be replaced fairly soon.
(train) In that case, can't you bring that forward to before our trains come into use?
(track) OK, I guess so. (produces a typical NR promised final milestone date).

Or some variant of that. Of course you would expect any small modifications already added to the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) trains to have been put into the ones testing on the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line), wouldn't you?

[Clan Line]

DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) - Government dept
NR^» (Network Rail - home page) -  State owned
ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) - Sate run franchise..............

...............good advert for Jeremy's re-nationalised railways ............

[Sixty3Closure]

Or maybe something in the risk register along the lines off...

Risk - New trains may interfere with track-side equipment while electric
Mitigation - they're getting diesel engines  (and no cost to us)

Tick.

I'd hope not but I see it enough times in my organisation where a risk and the mitigation or cost is passed onto another project and then surprise when they refuse to deliver it.
   

[stuving]

Or maybe something in the risk register along the lines off...

Risk - New trains may interfere with track-side equipment while electric
Mitigation - they're getting diesel engines  (and no cost to us)

Tick.

I'd hope not but I see it enough times in my organisation where a risk and the mitigation or cost is passed onto another project and then surprise when they refuse to deliver it.
   

One point I thought was a surprising omission from that BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) article is that more that half of the VTEC/LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) trains will be just electric. So solving the problem is a bit more pressing.

However, Roger Ford's latest update (this month's e-Preview) was that a fix had been identified, but would mean a big programme of replacing isolating transformers, and that looked hard to do in the available time.

[Noggin]

Certainly not new, have read about this elsewhere. Wasn't a similar programme of works required for the Pendolini on the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line), and for the Eurostars to run on the bottom half of the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line)?

What I think they don't say is that another cause of the problem is that the power supply north of York still needs upgrading, so even if they didn't have the signalling issues then they still couldn't run as they'd trip the circuit breakers.

Perhaps someone was hoping that if they left things for long enough they could pin the bill on HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s))?

 

 

[Western Pathfinder]

For those of us that are interested,we may learn a thing or two from NRs^» (Network Rail - home page) point of view later on this afternoon. See link below.
https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/40f6c865-7c9f-4caa-890f-cd9ba8dabc47

[Electric train]

Detailed analysis in November MR^▸ (Midland Railway, or Motor Rail, depending on context).
Did the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) bring NR^» (Network Rail - home page) into the mix when specifying the IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan))?

No need. There's a standard procedure, involving NR maintaining lists of track-based equipment, frequencies to protect, EMC^▸ (ElectroMagnetic Compatibility) levels, places it is used, etc., vice versa, etc., etc. But predicting levels of EMI in the real world can be tricky, especially with a new design of OLE^▸ (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") and train as you can't go and measure either half of the puzzle.

And this is where things go wrong, generally when experienced Traction, Signalling and Electrification Engineers are brought together these potential issues are raised, explored and a risk matrix produced which allows for further investigation and testing; however project sponsors don't like this stage because it costs money and potentially can add delay to the program.


There is an akin issue  currently with the new Eurostars running through Ashford International

[Trowres]

I seem to recall that the early 1960's were marked by lots of problems exacerbated by buying trains off the drawing board without adequate prototype testing.