Seat Reservations turned on part way through journey

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

I have a reservation today for coach E. There is no coach E on the train.

Then your ticket is invalid.  You must leave the train at the next station and wait for the next train that does have a Coach E. 

More seriously though, is the seat reservation system working?  The seat reservation system recognises when a 9-car is used instead of a 10-car, and it should move First Class reservations in Coach E to the equivalent seat numbers in Coach K.  The TM^▸ (Train Manager, or Ticket Machine, or Temple Meads (Bristol), depending on context) should advise people of this as in the olden days on HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) when a coach was missing and reservations were moved to the 'unreserved' carriage.

[TaplowGreen]

I have a reservation today for coach E. There is no coach E on the train.

Then your ticket is invalid.  You must leave the train at the next station and wait for the next train that does have a Coach E. 

More seriously though, is the seat reservation system working?  The seat reservation system recognises when a 9-car is used instead of a 10-car, and it should move First Class reservations in Coach E to the equivalent coach numbers in Coach K.  The TM^▸ (Train Manager, or Ticket Machine, or Temple Meads (Bristol), depending on context) should advise people of this as in the olden days on HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) when a coach was missing and reservations were moved to the 'unreserved' carriage.

The reservation system was working but no, there was no mention of them being moved. That said, 1st class is only about 50% full. I think we're running about an hour late now.

[IndustryInsider]

I think we're running about an hour late now.

Full refund for that part of the journey then. 

[Sixty3Closure]

I had a similar experience on the Frome train when the reservations only came down after we'd left the station. It makes things difficult as often reservations are ditched if trains are running late or very quick turnaround (you'd hope the new system makes things easier). There was a bit of a heated argument before we left with a couple demanding someone move as they had the seat reserved and the occupant arguing there were no reservations which was true at that point.

[bobm]

Yes, that one is booked to be a 5-car!

It is neither 5, 9 or 10 tonight.  16:36 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa cancelled. This is due to train crew being delayed by service disruption.

[Robin Summerhill]

I agree with most of that, Robin.  Though if you have a reserved seat as part of an advance ticket, then the rules state you should sit in that seat don't they?

I thought that the main reasoning behind it was that the seat reservation ticket was the only proof that the passenger had booked for that train. I'm not sure that having to sit in the specified seat is part of the deal ...

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46546.aspx

Tickets are valid ONLY on the date and train service(s) shown on the ticket(s).

Where applicable, you must travel in the Class and reserved seat(s) shown on the ticket(s).

But whilst I have seen passengers being "kicked out" of seats so that people who've reserved can take the place they have booked, I have never seen any action being taken against people with advanced ticket seat reservations who've sat in a different and unreserved / unclaimed other seat.

Similarly I have never seen a passenger told to sit in the "right" seat either, but this looks to me like one of those rules that looks better on paper than in practical day-to-day operations.

Can you imagine what the media would have to say if they got hold of a story that somebody was told by an RPO that their ticket wasn't valid for that particular seat, although it was valid on that particular train, and tried to charge them again and issued a penalty fare?

I can... 

[rogerw]

I take the view that if the railway insists that you sit in the reserved seat they must guarantee that that seat will be available for you.  They don't do the latter so they cannot enforce the former (unfair contract terms?)

[Robin Summerhill]

I take the view that if the railway insists that you sit in the reserved seat they must guarantee that that seat will be available for you.  They don't do the latter so they cannot enforce the former (unfair contract terms?)

And of course don't even think of going to the toilet - your ticket isn't valid in that seat...

[didcotdean]

Similarly I have never seen a passenger told to sit in the "right" seat either, but this looks to me like one of those rules that looks better on paper than in practical day-to-day operations.

The only time I have personally seen this in operation was way back when on a GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways) train, although that operator seemed at times to me to specialise in punctiliousness.

[Incider]

The seat reservations are pulled down once the headcode is loaded, if the crew load the headcode very close to departure time, it maybe that the reservations don’t display immediately.  If the signal is poor or interrupted and the SRS file doesn’t get pulled down, the TM^▸ (Train Manager, or Ticket Machine, or Temple Meads (Bristol), depending on context) can try again and it if it does load then, this will be the reason for the display after departure.  Paddington is probably the worst place, if crews are late, if there are late set swaps etc.