Class 387 to Cardiff

[whole diary]

[lbraine]

Currently sitting on the 12:09 ex-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) to Cardiff and it’s a Class 387 !

Outside the mild confusion for passengers staring at the train and wondering, lack of seat reservation indicators it seems to be a GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) branded unit, but unlike the ‘real local 387s’ this one has no route maps above the doors showing the stops between Paddington and Didcot Parkway/Newbury normally done under the wires.

Is this a regular ? The lack of route maps does suggest a Subfleet of 387s for longer distance runs

[lbraine]

Apologies - should be 12:13

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P93792/2022-11-12#allox_id=0

[Hafren]

It's become a regular occurrence.

More clues can be seen on the detailed version of the info at RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website):
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P93792/2022-11-12/detailed#allox_id=0

This one shows it's booked for 387: DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) for part of the journey, booked for 110mph and standard class only.

Ironically it says 'reservations recommended'! I can't remember if it the seats have numbers and slots for labels, but the seating plan in the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) Facilities Guide doesn't show seat numbers! I do wish the information would separate reservable *seats* and reservable *trains* (for advance ticketing). And in the latter case, recommending reservations is meaningless!

[lbraine]

Definately no at seat or above seat reservations.

Train Manager is on-board as we just had a rare ticket check ?
So not even DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)), right ?

[lbraine]

A few months  ago on a UK^▸ (United Kingdom) rail forum (which I cannot find the link to now) said all the train leasing companies had inflationary price increases in their contracts (to varying degrees)

I wonder if the occurrence of using 387s and not IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project. This will offer more capacity on routes, save money, give a consistent and safe service and meet customer requirements. Intended to replace HSTs.) is because they are cheaper when ‘on lease’

This service is not rammed with spare seats available in the 8 car unit.

Maybe a better ‘fit’ for the demand ?

[Hafren]

Originally, its was suggested that 387s would be cleared to run PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains) so they could be used for crowd-busting for stadium events. So it makes sense that if they went to the trouble of getting them cleared, they would see some more regular use, and it helps with retaining crew and platform staff familiarity with them. And on top of that, keeping running costs down for quieter journeys does make sense.

I wonder if the train is running DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) but the TM^▸ (Train Manager, or Ticket Machine, or Temple Meads (Bristol), depending on context) happens to be on board anyway, perhaps just on commercial rather than safety duties until Didcot. On the other hand, what RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website) says is planned in the timetable isn't necessarily what's actually rostered for that journey on that day (or maybe is a default in the process when 387s are scheduled?). I'm speculating - someone in the know might be able to confirm if they routinely run the PAD-CDF 387s DOO for that part of the journey.

Fortunately, 387s aren't the worst of suburban stock being used on longer journeys. I'm looking at you, Turbos on CDF-PMH...

[stuving]

It's in the timetable as an Electrostar, and has been since last December. Saturday's service is basically hourly Swanseas, and the 387s run (not very often) to Bristol Parkway - this one is extended to Cardiff. There were more of them initially - see this post.

And yes - the timetable does say reservations recommended, for all of them (CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains) and BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains)).

[Ollie]

I wonder if the train is running DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) but the TM^▸ (Train Manager, or Ticket Machine, or Temple Meads (Bristol), depending on context) happens to be on board anyway, perhaps just on commercial rather than safety duties until Didcot. On the other hand, what RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website) says is planned in the timetable isn't necessarily what's actually rostered for that journey on that day (or maybe is a default in the process when 387s are scheduled?). I'm speculating - someone in the know might be able to confirm if they routinely run the PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains) 387s DOO for that part of the journey.

DOO only permitted between Paddington and Didcot, a TM or guard is required for the bit between Didcot and Cardiff.

[GBM]

Are those two different roles, or two names for the same role? (Train Manager & Guard).
If one is an 'old' name, which one is the current name?
((DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) only permitted between Paddington and Didcot, a TM^▸ (Train Manager, or Ticket Machine, or Temple Meads (Bristol), depending on context) or guard is required for the bit between Didcot and Cardiff))

[Electric train]

Not sure why anyone should be surprised about 387 covering such a service, elsewhere on the National network EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit)'s similar to 387's are the standard rolling stock for such distances

[lbraine]

Not sure why anyone should be surprised about 387 covering such a service, elsewhere on the National network EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit)'s similar to 387's are the standard rolling stock for such distances

But surely the IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project. This will offer more capacity on routes, save money, give a consistent and safe service and meet customer requirements. Intended to replace HSTs.) were ordered to cover South Wales intercity services? Or why order such numbers of units ?

I’m not complaining about the 387 as such - I think they very comfortable units.

Just wondering what Hitachi might do with under-utilised IEP fleet. Might they head elsewhere if GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) reverts to more 387 use ?

[grahame]

Not sure why anyone should be surprised about 387 covering such a service, elsewhere on the National network EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit)'s similar to 387's are the standard rolling stock for such distances

But surely the IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project. This will offer more capacity on routes, save money, give a consistent and safe service and meet customer requirements. Intended to replace HSTs.) were ordered to cover South Wales intercity services? Or why order such numbers of units ?

I’m not complaining about the 387 as such - I think they very comfortable units.

Just wondering what Hitachi might do with under-utilised IEP fleet. Might they head elsewhere if GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) reverts to more 387 use ?

We already know that the Castles are being faded out with IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) taking over Cardiff to Penzance diagrams. And Bimode might make sense on South West to Scotland via York services, and indeed on Bristol to Manchester if it ever comes back properly.

[stuving]

Just wondering what Hitachi might do with under-utilised IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project. This will offer more capacity on routes, save money, give a consistent and safe service and meet customer requirements. Intended to replace HSTs.) fleet. Might they head elsewhere if GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) reverts to more 387 use ?

In the current timetable, there is one 387 to BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains) and back in the morning weekdays, two on Sundays, and three on Saturdays; takes 80-90 minutes. Is that long distance? One of those goes on to CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains) and back each day, taking 20 minutes extra. Does that make it long distance? Or is going to Wales "international" enough to make that difference? The point of the exercise is in large part to maintain driver competence in any case, which is why only a few are run.

I think it's the same in the post-December timetable, though the removal of the Electrostar "green flash" symbol makes it harder to tell (you have to use the absence of the "black square" symbol, used for 80xs, saying bike reservations are compulsory and 1st class offered, as a proxy). That change has the odd side effect of denying that 387s have WiFi and power points!

[Ollie]

Are those two different roles, or two names for the same role? (Train Manager & Guard).
If one is an 'old' name, which one is the current name?
((DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) only permitted between Paddington and Didcot, a TM^▸ (Train Manager, or Ticket Machine, or Temple Meads (Bristol), depending on context) or guard is required for the bit between Didcot and Cardiff))

Train Manager is the newer one, but you will still see guards and conductors around. In terms of differences, think it just comes down to where they are based and what routes and traction they cover.

[GBM]

Are those two different roles, or two names for the same role? (Train Manager & Guard).
If one is an 'old' name, which one is the current name?
((DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) only permitted between Paddington and Didcot, a TM^▸ (Train Manager, or Ticket Machine, or Temple Meads (Bristol), depending on context) or guard is required for the bit between Didcot and Cardiff))

Train Manager is the newer one, but you will still see guards and conductors around. In terms of differences, think it just comes down to where they are based and what routes and traction they cover.

Thank you Ollie