Visiting the pub on the way home.

[whole diary]

[grahame]

I could have sworn we had a thread that mentioned going to the "Three Plovers" or "The Green Man" after work in London ... reminded here on Facebook about them.

In May 1949 British Rail was showing off its latest idea to please the public – a travelling pub.

Not a buffet car or restaurant, but a “tavern car” – a full on pub on wheels, in a mock-tudor appearance, with fake brick walls on the outside, and even a pub sign on the door.

Eight sets of two carriages were planned and each was given a traditional pub name — The White Horse, The Salutation, The Jolly Tar, The Dolphin, The Bull, The Green Man, The Crown, and Three Plovers.

Is on-train catering in a dedicated social environment something of the past, or is there scope for a return of the "Lord Nelson", "The King's Arms", "The Smoking Dog", the "Liz Truss", the "Engine and Tender" or "The Office"?

[johnneyw]

I could certainly see a potential market for this as a new sort of rail tour attraction although the Fun Police Heath and Safety people might become somewhat exercised by this.
Visiting heritage railway special events might also prove to be a popular promotional tool.

[PrestburyRoad]

I could certainly see a potential market for this as a new sort of rail tour attraction although the Fun Police Heath and Safety people might become somewhat exercised by this.
Visiting heritage railway special events might also prove to be a popular promotional tool.

I remember that back in the 1970s, when licensing laws required pubs to close in the afternoon, taking a journey on a heritage railway was a civilised way to carry on drinking through the afternoon.

[CyclingSid]

Were the tavern cars one of Bulleid's carriage designs?

Remember in the days of the old licensing laws, introduced so that production was not reduced in the world war, the afternoon closing did not apply on market day. There used to be one bus into Fakenham market in the morning and a very merry bus home in the evening. Somebody used to hire horse-drawn gypsy caravans for holidays. Apparently if you didn't make an obvious decision where to go the horse would automatically do a tour of the local market days.

[bradshaw]

Many years ago, I walked from Ilkley to Skipton over the moor, hatless as I recall. We arrived at the station at Skipton and into a pub, it was after closing. The solution, take the drink outside and read a newspaper thus hiding it from view!

[didcotdean]

There was a lot of criticism from architectural & art institutions about the fakeness of the interior & exterior of the tavern cars but as James Callaghan pointed out, "Nobody likes these tavern cars except for the public”.

[broadgage]

I could certainly see a potential market for this as a new sort of rail tour attraction although the Fun Police Heath and Safety people might become somewhat exercised by this.
Visiting heritage railway special events might also prove to be a popular promotional tool.

I remember that back in the 1970s, when licensing laws required pubs to close in the afternoon, taking a journey on a heritage railway was a civilised way to carry on drinking through the afternoon.

In Portsmouth, a common way of obtaining a drink in the afternoon was to travel to the Isle of Wight and back in order to enjoy the bar on the ferry.
In my youth the well informed drinker had to know the "permitted hours" in three different licensing districts. I lived in New Malden which was in Surrey and kept the usual hours for that county, however just up the Burlington road London began giving another 30 minutes each lunchtime, and on Monday to Thursday evenings.
It was just too far to walk in time, and waiting for a bus not worthwhile, but if a 131 bus could be seen approaching ?
Just across Kingston bridge, Middlesex began where Surrey hours applied in the winter and London hours in the summer.
If arriving at the then Railway tavern in new Malden high street a bit late for lunchtime closing, it was possible to take a train to either Raynes park (London) or to Hampton Wick (Middlesex)

O/T trivia, all day opening was introduced on August 22, to mark my birthday. It proved so successful that they carried on with it !

[Witham Bobby]

The Shackerstone Railway has a MkI Griddle Car, which is excellent.  as well as griddle-cooked light meals, they serve alcoholic beverages, which is a nice bonus.  Just to sit in the vehicle is to take a journey back in time by about 60 years

I'm not sure of the routes on which these Griddle Cars would have run on the network, but they seem like a really great idea

[grahame]

I see them pictured at what looks like Waterloo, and read at RMWeb

I know they were built for West of England and Bournemouth services - but what happened towards the end of their life?

When new in 1949 these sets were not confined to the Southern and were allocated to trains such as The Master Cutler and The Norfolkman to mention just two.

As a Bullied design,  and with prior knowledge of their operation from Waterloo, I started this thread in the "South Western Services" section of the forum and I would hazard a speculation that's where they spent the majority of the time they were tavern cars.  How things change ... I don't think there's any on-train catering left from Waterloo is there, and no longer any direct train beyond Exeter or Westbury either?

[stuving]

The Shackerstone Railway has a MkI Griddle Car, which is excellent.  as well as griddle-cooked light meals, they serve alcoholic beverages, which is a nice bonus.  Just to sit in the vehicle is to take a journey back in time by about 60 years

I'm not sure of the routes on which these Griddle Cars would have run on the network, but they seem like a really great idea

The griddle cars were introduced on the trans-pennine DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) (class 124) between Hull and Liverpool in January 1961. Oddly, the griddle cars were built in Eastleigh, but the class 124s in Swindon. Later that  month they appeared in Scotland, on the Edinburgh-Inverness route - locomotive-hauled, I think. You could get an Angus steak sandwich for 1/9d.

The next year they appeared on other routes, often in new fast D/EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) - London-Clacton (class 309), and Waterloo-Portsmouth, and started serving at-seat through the train so dropped the dining area. On the whole the reception seems to have been favourable, though there were still complaints about non-prestige long-distance trains with no catering. That got a BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) response containing the line "there are still more refreshment cars in Britain than in the whole of Western Europe".

The background was that restaurant cars were losing a lot of money on the traditional three-course meal served in two sittings in two classes, which were seen as expensive too. It was becoming clear that the demand was shifting to smaller, and cheaper,  meals along with some evolution of style and taste. Why did they go out of use only twenty years later?

[Witham Bobby]

The griddle cars were introduced on the trans-pennine DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) (class 124) between Hull and Liverpool in January 1961. Oddly, the griddle cars were built in Eastleigh, but the class 124s in Swindon. Later that  month they appeared in Scotland, on the Edinburgh-Inverness route - locomotive-hauled, I think. You could get an Angus steak sandwich for 1/9d.

Class 124 DMUs?  Now your talking.  What wonderful machines.  They seemed very far ahead of their time when introduced in 1960

The Class 123s were also excellent units when allowed to run on the intermediate work they were built for.  They weren't really suited to the suburban work where they ended up on the Western, prior to being shipped up north to join their half-sister class 124s. 

For a couple of summers, the Paddington and/or Oxford to Minehead Summer Saturday turns to Minehead and back were covered by Class 123s, but, by then, their buffet cars had gone.  Which would have made the three hours plus from London to West Somerset feel very dry.

[Chris from Nailsea]

For a couple of summers, the Paddington and/or Oxford to Minehead Summer Saturday turns to Minehead and back were covered by Class 123s, but, by then, their buffet cars had gone.  Which would have made the three hours plus from London to West Somerset feel very dry.

I can almost hear broadgage bemoaning this. 

[Mark A]

OT: a thread from a Twitternaut  - a day-trip spin around some of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), concentrating on trains with catering.

Got lucky with LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about), TfW^▸ (Transport for Wales), unlucky with Avanti West Coast.

Mark

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1785032936078835959.html

[Chris from Nailsea]

O/T trivia, all day opening was introduced on August 22, to mark my birthday. It proved so successful that they carried on with it !

There has to be a campaign, and / or petition, to have 22 August named forthwith as 'Broadgage Day'.   

[broadgage]

There was a lot of criticism from architectural & art institutions about the fakeness of the interior & exterior of the tavern cars but as James Callaghan pointed out, "Nobody likes these tavern cars except for the public”.

A bit like buffet cars !
I would pay good money to travel in a replica tavern car either on a railtour, or on a heritage railway.