Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Bmblbzzz]

'Bathness: the quality or characteristic of the city of Bath; pertaining to honeyed stone and well-fed tourists, etc.' 

That sound like pretty good translation of the French "Aixence", then.

Presumably that's from Aix-en-Provence rather than (what once was) Aix-la-Chapelle? Though I don't know either of the places, so maybe not.

[Rhydgaled]

Something for NR^» (Network Rail - home page) to learn from the unfortunate situation could be explanation to residents in more detail about what will happen, how it will look and why it will be like that, in addition to the normal stuff about bridge closure dates and so on.

And prefrably produce, in advance of starting any work, come up with a list of plausable designs and present them to the public and let the public decided which design is least obtrusive and then implement using the chossen design.

[stuving]

'Bathness: the quality or characteristic of the city of Bath; pertaining to honeyed stone and well-fed tourists, etc.' 

That sound like pretty good translation of the French "Aixence", then.

Presumably that's from Aix-en-Provence rather than (what once was) Aix-la-Chapelle? Though I don't know either of the places, so maybe not.

Yes, Aix-en-Provence is exactly the kind of place that feels like it has been rich since Roman times. I thought of it as a cross between Cambridge and Edinburgh, but with longer history - Bath (which I don't know except as a place not to drive through) might be as good a comparison. I was surprised to find that Bury St Edmunds has a similar feel, though fewer grand buildings.

I did once go to Aachen, ages ago, and all I can remember was being served beer in a 150 ml glass: smaller than the bar's wine glasses and smaller even than a Cologne glass (no, it's for K^lsch).

But that's enough digressing for now, isn't it?

[JayMac]

Something for NR^» (Network Rail - home page) to learn from the unfortunate situation could be explanation to residents in more detail about what will happen, how it will look and why it will be like that, in addition to the normal stuff about bridge closure dates and so on.

And prefrably produce, in advance of starting any work, come up with a list of plausable designs and present them to the public and let the public decided which design is least obtrusive and then implement using the chossen design.

Wheras I'd be telling the moaning Nimbys to do one. Network Rail don't need to be pandering to them. It's railway land. Put up what makes sense for cost and engineering.

[TonyK]

I have no idea about the trains capability, but I have to pull you up on your na^ve assumption that German engineering is the best.  Seems like the train performed fabulously when under test in Germany, but in the real world its performance is not so good.  We certainly haven't heard of something like that happening to German technology have we??

What, the Four Sprung Duck Technique isn't all it's cracked up to be? I've read that HOPS performs well in emissions tests too.

[Bmblbzzz]

Something for NR^» (Network Rail - home page) to learn from the unfortunate situation could be explanation to residents in more detail about what will happen, how it will look and why it will be like that, in addition to the normal stuff about bridge closure dates and so on.

And prefrably produce, in advance of starting any work, come up with a list of plausable designs and present them to the public and let the public decided which design is least obtrusive and then implement using the chossen design.

If all designs are equally 'plausible' in engineering and cost terms and it's purely an aesthetic choice, then maybe. It seems unlikely that different designs would be absolute equivalent in those terms, though.

[Rhydgaled]

Something for NR^» (Network Rail - home page) to learn from the unfortunate situation could be explanation to residents in more detail about what will happen, how it will look and why it will be like that, in addition to the normal stuff about bridge closure dates and so on.

And prefrably produce, in advance of starting any work, come up with a list of plausable designs and present them to the public and let the public decided which design is least obtrusive and then implement using the chossen design.

If all designs are equally 'plausible' in engineering and cost terms and it's purely an aesthetic choice, then maybe. It seems unlikely that different designs would be absolute equivalent in those terms, though

Well yes, the costs won't be identical but there's quite a few different designs of electrification mast out there on railways around the world, so they can't be massively more expensive, and some of them are significantly less intrusive than others. If there really is a chance (doubtful I know) that Network Rail will replace structures following the complains it surely would have been better (and cheaper) to design something non-intrusive in the first place. A "retrospective public consultation" is just plain stupid, do your public consultation before you start building stuff.

Wheras I'd be telling the moaning Nimbys to do one. Network Rail don't need to be pandering to them. It's railway land. Put up what makes sense for cost and engineering.

I cannot agree with you about telling to NIMBYs to get lost, if I did I would be liable to be accused of double standards. I'm strongly opposed to swamping listed stations like Cardiff Central and Bristol Temple Meads with new modern architecture (lots of glass and steel, generally). In the case of the former, there's even the possibilty that the platform canopies and much of the main station building would be demolished. I am in favor of some work at Cardiff Central and I appreciate the need to increase the passenger capacity of the station, but I don't consider any of the artist's impressions released so far to be an acceptable way to treat GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) architecture. I really hope that there will be a meaningful public consultation before any work starts, so that pepole like me can work with the railway to come up with a design which delivers the necessary improvements without trashing the attractive vista of the station. Consulting after the work has been carried out would be rather fruitless, and would be grounds for complaint.

Going back to OHLE^▸ (Over-Head Line Equipment (electrification via catenary)), my main point is that there appear to be multiple designs which make sense from cost and engineering, given that a variety of designs have been implemented. It would seem sensible to have involved the locals at an early stage, to try and avoid the suituation we apparently have now with NIMBYs moaning when it really is too late for NR to realisticly do anything. Regarding any structures already errected, I would probably tell the NIMBYs 'sorry, too late to do anything about it now' but that sort of thing doesn't really go down well and it would be better not to get into the suituation of having to say that.

[Tim]

'Bathness: the quality or characteristic of the city of Bath; pertaining to honeyed stone and well-fed tourists, etc.' 

That sound like pretty good translation of the French "Aixence", then.

Presumably that's from Aix-en-Provence rather than (what once was) Aix-la-Chapelle? Though I don't know either of the places, so maybe not.

Bath is twinned with Aix-en-Provence

[Tim]

Wheras I'd be telling the moaning Nimbys to do one. Network Rail don't need to be pandering to them. It's railway land. Put up what makes sense for cost and engineering.

Absolutely true and I'd be inclined to agree.  I do point out though that good design is about form and function and that some of the OLE^▸ (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") by that definition is badly designed.  That is a shame.  Network Rail shouldn't be pandering to Nimbys.  It SHOULD be insisting on top quality design work though.  The inelegance of some of the OLE suggests that this was not a top quality design job (as do the delays btw) and that is not just about aesthetics, bad design also shows up in the lack of unity between the different elements and the waste of steel in having masts higher than they need to be.   

[Bmblbzzz]

'Bathness: the quality or characteristic of the city of Bath; pertaining to honeyed stone and well-fed tourists, etc.' 

That sound like pretty good translation of the French "Aixence", then.

Presumably that's from Aix-en-Provence rather than (what once was) Aix-la-Chapelle? Though I don't know either of the places, so maybe not.

Bath is twinned with Aix-en-Provence

The denarius drops!  Thanks, Tim.

[clevertrousers]

Hope this is the right place to post this news but spotted a Class 800 IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project. This will offer more capacity on routes, save money, give a consistent and safe service and meet customer requirements. Intended to replace HSTs.) at North Pole on the way into Paddington this morning - nice and shiny looking. A bit of progress on this part of the Project at least...

[IndustryInsider]

Welcome to the forum.

Yes, it's being used to test facilities within the new depot and also to test the cab layout is optimised for the various shapes and sizes of staff that will be sitting in the drivers seat.

[paul7575]

On a Reading to Paddington service yesterday I saw quite a number of TTCs on the reliefs east of Maidenhead (possibly a majority) with the insulators fitted, will we see some wires before the end of the year?

Paul

[Red Squirrel]

...Going back to OHLE^▸ (Over-Head Line Equipment (electrification via catenary)), my main point is that there appear to be multiple designs which make sense from cost and engineering, given that a variety of designs have been implemented. It would seem sensible to have involved the locals at an early stage, to try and avoid the suituation we apparently have now with NIMBYs moaning when it really is too late for NR^» (Network Rail - home page) to realisticly do anything. Regarding any structures already errected, I would probably tell the NIMBYs 'sorry, too late to do anything about it now' but that sort of thing doesn't really go down well and it would be better not to get into the suituation of having to say that.

OHLE doesn't have to be fugly - like everything else, it's a choice:

[broadgage]

Yes, but that picture is of tramway overhead. Inherently less obtrusive and of a lighter design since it would be only 550 volts not 25,000 volts. Much smaller clearances and shorter insulators, and also a much simpler design on account of the low speeds.