Jobsworths or not?

[whole diary]

[plymothian]

From another forum

witnessed this event in the summer and wanted to know DS's thoughts.

I was catching the train from Bridgend to Cardiff for an appointment and a woman came on behind me with her son, who was about 7, and they sat across the aisle. The British Rail employee came over to check the tickets and the woman produced 2 tickets. The guy asked to see her Railcard, so she began to rummage around in her purse for it. After about a minute she produced her card and the employee told her, rather abruptly, that it was out of date by 3 weeks. She looked again and, although she couldn't find the railcard, she found her receipt that showed she'd bought the tickets the day before, showing that she must have renewed her railcard in order for it to be scanned in etc. She said that she must have left her railcard at the desk when she bought her tickets because the receipt clearly showed that she'd used her railcard when purchasing them.

The ticket officer then began to shout at the lady, saying that if she didn't produced the railcard she'd be thrown off the train (he actually used the word "throw"). The woman was quite old and she was having trouble keeping up with the conversation (she had a deep Carribean accent) - the ticket officer took full advantage of this by screaming "I DON'T UNDERSTAND YOU!" when she began talking quickly.

The ticket officer then left to get his colleague, and the woman showed me the reciept (which actually said "Railcard" on it and a credit card number that matched the lady's credit card) and you could tell that she was being honest, especially when she started to cry. When the ticket officer and his colleague returned, I told them both that I thought their attitude towards the woman was disgraceful, especially as she had clear proof of purchase. I was told that it was "company policy" that customers should be removed from the train when they don't have a railcard with a railcard ticket. The second employee then accused the woman of forging the signature - apparently, the ticket office in Bridgend closes at 7pm and the receipt said she'd purchased the ticket at 7:04pm I left at Cardiff, she was on her way to London, and I wished her the best of luck but I always look back and wonder what happened to her.

Do you think that the woman was in the wrong for not bringing her railcard, or that the 2 employees were jobsworths who took it too far?

and subsequent reaction

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1202372

[Brucey]

The British Rail employee

She looked again and, although she couldn't find the railcard, she found her receipt that showed she'd bought the tickets the day before, showing that she must have renewed her railcard in order for it to be scanned in etc.

You can buy a ticket without presenting the railcard, or someone else could have bought it for her.

The ticket officer then began to shout at the lady, saying that if she didn't produced the railcard she'd be thrown off the train (he actually used the word "throw").

I assume the woman was rude by this point (two sides to every story!)

Do you think that the woman was in the wrong for not bringing her railcard, or that the 2 employees were jobsworths who took it too far?

I think the woman was in the wrong.  It is a clealy stated condition that you have to present the railcard with your ticket.  The guard had no way of knowing that she held a railcard or that it was valid (they don't check the date when you buy the ticket).

[JayMac]

True story or not?

[devon_metro]

Company policy is the confiscate the out of date railcard and charge the relevant anytime ticket.

[ChrisB]

Bearinmg in mind that this is just as likely to be ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former Train Operating Company)) staff as FGW^▸ (First Great Western) staff....

[moonrakerz]

Why is a railway employee, who is merely enforcing the rules that applies to tickets bought with (OR without !) a railcard, a "jobsworth" ??


There are numerous "holes" in this story anyway. I daresay ticket inspectors have heard every excuse under the sun when it comes to railcards - "the dog ate my homework sir !"

[ChrisB]

But chucking off the train? Surely allowed to pay for undiscounted ticket?

[RichieG]

Strangely, often on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) I've presented my ticket, bought with a YP railcard, and not the card (although I have had the card with me) yet have not been asked to produce the card... 

[Brucey]

Strangely, often on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) I've presented my ticket, bought with a YP railcard, and not the card (although I have had the card with me) yet have not been asked to produce the card... 

Some guards are more lenient than others.

There is one female guard (on the Portsmouth service) who always ask for "Tickets & Railcards please".  I've even heard her announce, as walking through the carraige, "Can anyone who had obtained a discount please ensure they have their railcard ready or have a valid payment method ready to pay an excess fare".

Fair enough.  You receive the discount so you should be able to present the document that gives you the discount.

[readytostart]

Strangely, often on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) I've presented my ticket, bought with a YP railcard, and not the card (although I have had the card with me) yet have not been asked to produce the card... 

Some guards are more lenient than others.

There is one female guard (on the Portsmouth service) who always ask for "Tickets & Railcards please".  I've even heard her announce, as walking through the carraige, "Can anyone who had obtained a discount please ensure they have their railcard ready or have a valid payment method ready to pay an excess fare".

Fair enough.  You receive the discount so you should be able to present the document that gives you the discount.

For me it all depends how busy the train is, if it's reasonably busy I'll just ask for railcards for any advance dated tickets or tickets bought from TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine), you learn to pick up on the differences, though it's less easy than before. Also any tickets that have already been checked on that journey would also be dealt with fairly quickly. On a quieter journey I'll go through and check the whole lot.

One point of interest for you XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) haters out there is that it's our company policy that if a passenger cannot present their railcard then they should be excessed up to the appropriate fair, without the discount. However, if they write to customer relations within 28 days enclosing the ticket, excess and a copy of their railcard then they will be refunded the excess, to the nearest pound in rail vouchers.

[devon_metro]

Strangely, often on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) I've presented my ticket, bought with a YP railcard, and not the card (although I have had the card with me) yet have not been asked to produce the card... 

Some guards are more lenient than others.

There is one female guard (on the Portsmouth service) who always ask for "Tickets & Railcards please".  I've even heard her announce, as walking through the carraige, "Can anyone who had obtained a discount please ensure they have their railcard ready or have a valid payment method ready to pay an excess fare".

Fair enough.  You receive the discount so you should be able to present the document that gives you the discount.

I think I know who you mean, in which case, she's quite notorious as being the Conductor at her depot who has confiscated the most out of date railcards!!!

[Mookiemoo]

And can I add the number of FGW^▸ (First Great Western) guards/ ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former Train Operating Company)) guards who you ask for "first class return Worcester to Reading with a student rail card"

And don't even ask to see the damn card when you buy it!

[RichieG]

Some guards are more lenient than others.

There is one female guard (on the Portsmouth service) who always ask for "Tickets & Railcards please".  I've even heard her announce, as walking through the carraige, "Can anyone who had obtained a discount please ensure they have their railcard ready or have a valid payment method ready to pay an excess fare".

Fair enough.  You receive the discount so you should be able to present the document that gives you the discount.

I agree with you. I think I've had this guard on a trip from Tiverton to Paddington (or vice versa). Recently though I do usually keep both my ticket and my card out on the table in front of me until the guard comes around to check the tickets (I've found that they fit ideally in the section on the chair where the safety information goes, and then work as a bookmark!).

[John R]

I think I know the guard you mean, as she is very sharp, and I suspect stands no nonsense. Though I did take exception one morning when I showed my 1st season and also asked to buy a standard single to continue my journey from Swindon to Paddington.  She shouted across to the Customer Host "this one's got to move to Standard after Swindon", thus virtually accusing me in advance that I would try to stay in 1st.

Though I can't imagine she would also do the Bristol Portsmouth run if based in the South West. 

[Super Guard]

I think I know the guard you mean, as she is very sharp, and I suspect stands no nonsense. Though I did take exception one morning when I showed my 1st season and also asked to buy a standard single to continue my journey from Swindon to Paddington.  She shouted across to the Customer Host "this one's got to move to Standard after Swindon", thus virtually accusing me in advance that I would try to stay in 1st.

Though I can't imagine she would also do the Bristol Portsmouth run if based in the South West. 

Do HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) run to Portsmouth?  If not, then that sounds like a West Guard, who certainly wouldn't be covering Swindon to Paddington.