Train not stopping at Totnes

[whole diary]

[chrisc]

Really useful and interesting forum, wish I had discovered it earlier!

I went to Totnes on Saturday 8/10/11 in good time to pick up my wife from the 1106 from Paddington due 1406 but it wasn't shown on the platform information display. Then there was an announcement that it was cancelled "due to signalling problems in the Taunton area" so I enquired in the ticket office and was told this was true and pax^▸ (passengers) were expected on the Edinburgh-Plymouth train due 1416 (and shown as running 10 mins late).

Then I overheard one of the platform staff explaining that the train in question was not going to stop at Totnes because one power car was down and it needed to take a run at Rattery Bank, the pax were going to be transferred to the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) service at Newton Abbot. This is at least consistent with the similar thread regarding Train not stopping at Bodmin Parkway

Meanwhile on board my wife was being told that "to avoid the train (which was by then 10 mins late) being even later arriving in Plymouth and delaying following trains (which it certainly would if it had ground to a halt on the incline!) she should alight at Exeter and catch the following train. Fortunately this was only 5 mins behind and there was room on it, so all ended well.

But I hope someone with expert knowledge can answer my ensuing questions which are

• Why was the missing arrival/departure not shown at Totnes as "cancelled" rather than just removed from the display
• Why are different FGW^▸ (First Great Western) staff giving out different reasons for the non-stopping, none of which is either comprehensive or entirely true
• If Dainton bank is as steep as Rattery Bank why would a train which can't stop at Totnes be able to stop at Newton Abbot and still get over the top?
  
  

TIA^▸ ('thanks in advance') Chris

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

Why was the missing arrival/departure not shown at Totnes as "cancelled" rather than just removed from the display
Why are different FGW^▸ (First Great Western) staff giving out different reasons for the non-stopping, none of which is either comprehensive or entirely true
If Dainton bank is as steep as Rattery Bank why would a train which can't stop at Totnes be able to stop at Newton Abbot and still get over the top?

first one no idea
second one ... they were the same reason the stop was cancelled
third... this is why too much information can be a dangerous thing, the information provided should have been simplified, lets be honest once you knew about rattery bank you questioned it,and belived that one of the members of staff gave you false information...they didn't! all you needed to know was that due to the train not running at full power for operational reasons the totnes stop on that service would be omitted so that the service could keep to time however tickets would be taken on the following service which would arrive into totnes ten mins later, and that they are sorry for the inconvenience

[grahame]

Hi, Chris, and welcome to the forum.

• Why was the missing arrival/departure not shown at Totnes as "cancelled" rather than just removed from the display

There are some quirks in the systems sometimes ... I suspect that as the train was going through (but none-stop) it wasn't really cancelled

• Why are different FGW^▸ (First Great Western) staff giving out different reasons for the non-stopping, none of which is either comprehensive or entirely true

Very possibly because they didn't have the complete information themselves ... in this sort of situation there are usually fairly standard plans in place as to what happens, but it may not be know whether the engine's completely or partly out, and it could well be that they were reading the evidence they had to the best of their ability, giving you the most probable cause.

Information systems are far better than they ever were, but complete, instant and certain information when something starts to go adrift is still not with us.

• If Dainton bank is as steep as Rattery Bank why would a train which can't stop at Totnes be able to stop at Newton Abbot and still get over the top?

I would expect that a 125 on one engine could get over either ... but very slowly and with big time loss.  I can't see FGW committing a train to go over the top on one engine and keeping their fingers crossed that it didn't get stopped at a signal because it might be stuck.   But there's a big difference between 20 mph and 60 mph ...

There's also a big difference between Newton Abbott and Totnes ... and whilst there was room on the crosscountry service for Totnes passengers, would that have been the case for people going to Newton Abbott too?

[The SprinterMeister]

If Dainton bank is as steep as Rattery Bank why would a train which can't stop at Totnes be able to stop at Newton Abbot and still get over the top?

An HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) leaving Newton Abbot on one lung has an appreciable stretch of level track (and a short bit of down gradient) before encountering Dainton. Therefore if the line is clear from the former Aller Jn to Dainton Tunnel a OEO^▸ (One Engine Only (class 43 HSTs with problems), or Oxford Evening Out (ticket), depending on context) 2+8 HST can take a run at the bank, and this is allowed provided all 5 power notches are avaiable on the operative power car, the weather conditions are not adverse and no temporary or emergency speed restrictions are in place on the down road as far as the tunnel.

At Totnes on the down Rattery Bank starts before the train has gone over the point end back onto the main line. No chance of a run up and a fair chance a OEO 2+8 HST will grind to a halt somewhere just past the Cemeteray. Once it stops it stays stopped until either it runs back into Totnes under signallers authority or assistance is provided. No attempt can be made to restart a OEO 2+8 HST on Dainton, Rattery or Hemerdon as all you will do is burn the traction motors out.

OEO = One Engine Only.

[chrisc]

Thanks chaps for yr comprehensive answers. Unfortunately my Quail track plans don't seem to have much gradient or height info, should have looked at the 1:25000 OS^▸ (Ordnance Survey) map on the shelf before posting!

Doesn't explain the "cancelled due to signalling problems in the Taunton area" story though, but I never did believe that since it miraculously didn't affect the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) train following, it didn't explain where the train physically was and it seemed an odd place to terminate a late-running service anyway. By sod's law my wife's iPhone was showing no signal for most of the journey as well so it was only afterwards that we could compare notes.

Thanks again
Chris

[Maxwell P]

g!

Doesn't explain the "cancelled due to signalling problems in the Taunton area" story though, but I never did believe that since it miraculously didn't affect the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) train following, it didn't explain where the train physically was and it seemed an odd place to terminate a late-running service anyway.

If the problems were on the Berks & Hants side of Cogload, (still within the Taunton area in railese),  the XC train would have been unaffected on its run down from Bristol