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Sir Andrew Haines, CEO of Network Rail - merged historic posts, for continuity / clarity
8.5.2025 (Thursday) 06:25 - All running AOK
 
Sir Andrew Haines, CEO of Network Rail - merged historic posts, for continuity / clarity
Posted by Timmer at 17:57, 13th December 2007
 
In tonight's Bristol Evening Post:

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=144913&command=displayContent&sourceNode=231190&home=yes&more_nodeId1=144922&contentPK=19248873

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by devon_metro at 18:00, 13th December 2007
 
Quote:
This time around, campaigners have pointed the finger at a shortage of carriages on some services. They also say a new system which is seeing long trains stopping at small stations, only opening a limited number of doors, is causing delays as passengers fight their way on and off.


Do they suggest all doors are open and we let the passengers onto the track?

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by John R at 22:03, 13th December 2007
 
I hadn't heard of too many cases where that actually happened.  But FGW's plans to use HSTs at additional local stations didn't work as "grandfather rights" couldn't be extended to the stations they were looking to stop at (eg Worle). So for the sake of H&S, a new system had to be introduced, at significant cost, and passenger inconvenience. Such is progress. No wonder Roger Ford (Modern Railways) calls them the H&S Taliban.   

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Lee at 11:26, 14th December 2007
 
Further quote :

"He urged local authorities to work together to secure new engines and carriages from the Government's Department for Transport."

A message from FGW to Wiltshire and others?

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Btline at 13:35, 14th December 2007
 
Quote:
Do they suggest all doors are open and we let the passengers onto the track?


Why not? if people are stupid enough to do so then they deserve to be run over! Small children shoud be supervised.

I have a brain, I would appreciate it if the "heath and safety" talibans could acknowledge this fact!

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by dog box at 07:54, 15th December 2007
 
Quote:
Do they suggest all doors are open and we let the passengers onto the track?


Why not? if people are stupid enough to do so then they deserve to be run over! Small children shoud be supervised.

I have a brain, I would appreciate it if the "heath and safety" talibans could acknowledge this fact!

problem is most people seem to leave there brain at home when they travel by train..and  we now live a a no win no fee compensation culture so the claims would come flying in

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Lee at 13:17, 15th January 2008
 
Can be found in the link below.
http://thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=144913&command=displayContent&sourceNode=231190&home=yes&more_nodeId1=144922&contentPK=19557973

Things I noticed :

Haines again raises the concept of a version of the "Northern Way" , which sees the local authorities and the Regional Development Agency come together to develop a strategic investment plan. As I knew this was FGW policy, my recent West Fleet proposal had that partly in mind (link below.)
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1407.msg8181#msg8181

Two coincidences :

The Haines interview has been printed on the same day as the MTLS public meeting, and also on the same day as the DfT awarded Transport Innovation Fund "pump-priming" money to the West Of England Partnership.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by dog box at 08:59, 17th January 2008
 
If the energy and commitment  that went into complaining /moaning about FGW and Organising Fare strikes was channelled into Supporting Andrew Haines vision we might start getting somewhere.
Insted of sitting back and letting other areas put forward a case for more funding /better services

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Lee at 10:01, 17th January 2008
 
If the energy and commitment  that went into complaining /moaning about FGW and Organising Fare strikes was channelled into Supporting Andrew Haines vision we might start getting somewhere.
Insted of sitting back and letting other areas put forward a case for more funding /better services

I have already put my plan to the DfT, FGW and others. No response from FGW so far, but the DfT say they are considering it.

The cynic in me says "dont hold your breath" , but if you dont ask, then you dont get.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by 12hoursunday at 11:39, 19th January 2008
 
Can't understand what the fool is on about when he compairs the train company with the bus company. They have the same parent company and contribute to the profits to that same parent company but are run as complete seperate buinesses.

That I suppose is the trouble with the " FIRSTGROUP" bashers from around this part, they don't what their on about!

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Lee at 11:45, 19th January 2008
 
Can't understand what the fool is on about when he compairs the train company with the bus company. They have the same parent company and contribute to the profits to that same parent company but are run as complete seperate buinesses.

That I suppose is the trouble with the " FIRSTGROUP" bashers from around this part, they don't what their on about!

For the benefit of forum readers, are you reffering to a poster in the comments section of the Bristol Evening Post article, 12hoursunday?

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by 12hoursunday at 11:58, 19th January 2008
 
Sorry Lee Yes I am. I wouldn't dare call anyone on here a fool.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by at 09:41, 22nd February 2008
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/feb/22/transport.railtravel

: Guardian.co.uk
Passengers on First Great Western are used to hearing the word "sorry" from Andrew Haines. The boss of Britain's least popular rail franchise sometimes gets an earthier reply from the most disgruntled customers on the rail network, especially when he is stranded with them on the 6.30pm from Paddington to Weston-super-Mare.

"Last night on the train we were stuck for 30 minutes and I had to listen to another customer's language, which probably even the Guardian would not print. Plenty of use of the c word."

Oaths have been muttered up and down the London-to-Cardiff line over the past year as FGW struggles with overcrowding, passenger protests and endemic tardiness. Last month it was voted the UK's worst rail service, hence its inevitable rechristening as "Worst Late Western", and the situation must be bad when the man who presided over the first run on a high street bank in more than a century, chancellor Alistair Darling, urges managers to "get a grip".

Haines was drafted in as chief operating officer of FGW by its parent, FirstGroup, five months ago and is working a six-day week as he toils over the franchise, alongside executing his responsibilities for four other rail services as the head of FirstGroup's rail division. He is affable, but does not exude sunny optimism about the franchise. This is in contrast with his predecessor, Alison Forster, who told the Guardian last year that "it will be a very different place in a year's time", adding that "it will be seen as one of the best operations in the UK rather than one of the worst".

Sat in a boardroom at FGW's Paddington station office, the 43-year-old Welshman mutters about finding the most diplomatic response to an impossible pledge. He outlines a turnaround plan measured in inches rather than leaps, starting with a lowering of the sights.

"Alison was clearly setting out an aspiration that, with the benefit of hindsight, was probably too ambitious and not realistic. There are big issues to tackle and we are absolutely on the right ground to do that now. But I will not promise that it will be top of the league next year. It will not be. My experience of business transformation is that it does not happen overnight."

Haines insists that the cussing customer on the Weston-super-Mare service is not representative of most passengers. Rail users angered at being shoehorned on to trains have registered their concerns: two fare strikes in the past year have made their point and FGW allowed hundreds of passengers with protest tickets, most of whom were season ticket holders anyway, to board trains. Haines finds the abusive stuff harder to take.

"You feel physically sick. I didn't feel I could do anything for that customer," he says, referring to the fact that their train was being held up by a service from another franchise. But Haines is not expecting a consoling pat on the back. Perhaps a little less ripe language would be appreciated, but FGW will lose the franchise if excuses continue to outweigh improvements.

Haines has prostrated himself since taking over. Stations on the FGW routes have been adorned with posters carrying apologies from the FGW boss and his team and passenger compensation has been doubled - 10% off their season tickets. Some of the excuses are sounding tired, no matter how impressive the promises attached to them, particularly the repeated references to the ^200m investment in train and station refurbishments that are part of the 10-year franchise. The ^200m investment was announced when FirstGroup renewed the franchise two years ago and many passengers argue it has not worked.

Anthony Smith, chief executive of commuter watchdog Passenger Focus, says Haines, a lifelong railway man who joined British Rail as a graduate manager in 1985, has the pedigree to turn around FGW. "He is universally trusted and respected throughout the industry. There is relief that he has arrived but it is a pity he has not arrived earlier." Smith adds that the ^200m programme has been crushingly ambitious, combining the overhaul of 53 high-speed train sets with a ^1.1bn government payment schedule that imposes hefty fare increases on fed-up customers.

"The task is huge, absolutely huge," Smith says. "The scale of the ambition was correct, but given the size of the task it had to be done quickly in order to get a return. First Great Western did everything very quickly at once. The company came badly unstuck, doing things too quickly on top of very shaky infrastructure, old track and old signals."

So, has FGW committed a fatal misjudgment in promising a miraculous performance? "I fundamentally disagree with Anthony Smith," says Haines. "But I can understand why he says that because our delivery has not been strong. If we are not ambitious someone else will win the franchise."

Smith insists that the sums don't add up. FGW has charged the highest fare increases in the UK over the past decade, but the ^1.1bn contract with the Department for Transport, which defines timetables and carriage numbers as well as demanding a lofty premium, is constraining the company's ability to fix its problems.

"Everyone recognises that it was a bad deal," Smith says. "Is the investment enough or does more money need to go in from First Great Western, the government or a partnership? We are getting to halfway through the franchise and it's a question of who is going to blink first."

There is not much of a staring contest to be had when government railway policy states that annual public subsidy across the network will fall from ^4.5bn to ^3bn from 2009, while the farepayers' contribution will nearly double to ^9bn. Haines says FGW will put more money in over and above the ^200m, but won't say how much or where it will be invested, although FGW is hunting down more rolling stock. He adds that the "vast majority" of FGW's profits, which represent around a third of the rail division's ^109m annual surplus, is being reinvested in the franchise. Haines won't reveal explicit figures, but one financial certainty in all of this is that fares will continue to rise above inflation into the next decade.

"We are all big boys and we decided to bid for the franchise. The government wanted to rebalance the contribution by taxpayers and we accepted that. Will there be some passenger pain? Yes."

More Trains Less Strain, the passenger group that called the fare strikes, believes the service has improved since the dark days of 2007, when FGW fumbled the introduction of a new timetable and failed to put enough carriages on. But punctuality - more than a quarter of all peaktime FGW trains arrive late - and high fares still annoy.

"It is good that Andrew Haines is there," says More Trains Less Strain's Peter Andrews. "We are pleased that he is a railway man, but until we get a franchise that is punctual, affordable and reliable, we will keep on rebelling. At the moment we are seeing none of those things."

Haines is exasperated at the group's plucky appropriation of the dark arts: "I agree to meet them and they put out a press release saying I'm 'rattled'," he says, before admitting that the company has become disconnected from its customers.

Network Rail has also driven a considerable wedge between Haines and the farepayers. The owner of Britain's rail infrastructure is responsible for maintaining a great western route whose track dates from the 1970s and whose signalling systems are a decade older. Half the delays on the consistently shoddy Oxford-to-Paddington section are due to Network Rail problems. The replacement of Forster was accompanied by a new route manager at Network Rail, confirmation that both companies had got it wrong since 2006. Haines says the relationship is much better and incremental improvements are being made all over the route, which covers the West Country down to Penzance as well as the Cardiff and Oxford routes. However, he won't put the boot into Network Rail. "Would it make the customers feel any better?" And he accepts that FGW got a lot wrong .

"First Great Western underestimated the scale of the challenge. It underestimated the strength of passenger feeling ... be it timetable changes, be it fare rises, be it service levels. It was a complex task, integrating three franchises into one, re-engineering and refurbishing a high-speed train fleet in three years."

Government sources say FGW's performance is "under a microscope", which threatens the corporate and personal humiliation of FirstGroup being stripped of the franchise. Haines says he is a turnaround specialist who restored South West Trains from a much criticised business to an award-winning franchise within years. A former British Rail colleague, Virgin Trains' chief operating officer, Chris Gibbs, says: "Passengers should know that Andrew will be leaving no stone unturned in the quest for better performance on First Great Western, and should not doubt his sheer energy and personal commitment." That reputation faces its biggest test with this franchise.

"Is it a tough job? Yes," says Haines. "Do I have phenomenal support from the top of the group? Absolutely. Our customers can be mightily unhappy and I cannot say my wife is happy either with the time I have been spending on it. But I don't feel browbeaten."

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Lee at 06:48, 23rd February 2008
 
[quote="Guardian.co.uk]
Smith insists that the sums don't add up. FGW has charged the highest fare increases in the UK over the past decade, but the ^1.1bn contract with the Department for Transport, which defines timetables and carriage numbers as well as demanding a lofty premium, is constraining the company's ability to fix its problems.

Interesting use of the word "define" rather than "specify" 


Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Lee at 21:36, 23rd February 2008
 
Guardian article link, including Andrew Haines CV.
http://www.rmtbristol.org.uk/2008/02/rude_awakening_on_the_630_from.html#more

Similar article link.
http://www.rmtbristol.org.uk/2008/02/boss_of_worst_rail_service_itl.html#more

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Timmer at 09:15, 24th February 2008
 
Similar article link.
http://www.rmtbristol.org.uk/2008/02/boss_of_worst_rail_service_itl.html#more
Gosh thats quite a selection of articles from around the region that the RMT have put together from the last few days. As far as 'West' local services are concerned, I really do believe that if FGW are given a chance they can improve things IF they get these extra 150s from ATW. As for Thames services I don't know. Is overcrowding the issue or just relability?

Its when you see articles from all over their network with the depth of feeling thats out there that you begin to wonder how much longer they can go on with pressure on the government do something about this franchise. Andrew Haines must be given a chance with this franchise though. Its now been run by a completly new team which he has got together who have good track records with other train companies so must know what they are doing. Its not going to change overnight as it was in a real mess before he took over.

One final headline for you from the front page of the latest edition of RAIL magazine:

Last Chance for FGW? First orders action 'at any cost' to keep franchise.

Sounds good doesn't it? Does that mean they are going to keep the Adelantes and introduce a small fleet of locos and Mk2s on Cross Bristol services...I don't think so.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Lee at 09:21, 24th February 2008
 
Gosh thats quite a selection of articles from around the region that the RMT have put together from the last few days.

Yes, that site is an excellent resource (link below.)
http://www.rmtbristol.org.uk/

Train Fellow To Give Haines A Chance
Posted by Lee at 09:41, 22nd March 2008
 
Latest Train Fellows blog post link.
http://trainfellows.blogspot.com/2008/03/give-them-chance.html

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Timmer at 20:27, 17th September 2008
 
Well its been a year now since Andrew Haines took over from Alison Forster at the helm of FGW. What are your thoughts? Has he delivered and turned the company around? Finally, what has been the biggest thing you feel Andrew and his team have done that you have seen make a difference on your journey?

I'll start the ball rolling in saying yes I feel he has delivered by grabbing this company by the scruff of the neck and made it more customer focused which was badly lacking before he took over. The biggest thing thats happened over the past year for me was the re-introduction of three car 158s on the Cardiff-Portsmouth line.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Lee at 20:36, 17th September 2008
 
Finally, what has been the biggest thing you feel Andrew and his team have done...

From my perspective, when I ask a question, I get a prompt answer from the person responsible for the matter concerned.

That didnt use to be the case.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by IndustryInsider at 21:33, 17th September 2008
 
Finally, what has been the biggest thing you feel Andrew and his team have done...

From my perspective, when I ask a question, I get a prompt answer from the person responsible for the matter concerned.

That didnt use to be the case.

It's been a reasonably impressive start. Most Managers I have spoken to think that his immediate reports and management structure within the company have improved ten-fold. The PPM figures have risen quite spectaculary, though I believe they would have risen anyway from the depths of despair of the Foster era - major operating changes such as the Franchise change and HST refresh always take a little time to bed in.

There are many challenges ahead for him though and I am sure he will continue to work through them as he has done with sensible ideas, the drive to carry them through, and with as much honesty as someone in his position can be.

I wonder how long it will be until he considers the 'job has been done' and moves back to his main role within FirstGroup? I hope somebody decent replaces him! One wonders what Alison thinks of it all?!

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 21:59, 17th September 2008
 
A couple of points from me:

I've met Andrew Haines, and I like him: he's clearly enthusiastic and committed to turning FGW around.  In terms of results so far, I think he's done very well.  My daily commute these days is usually clockwork, rather than being a nightmare more often than not, and for me personally, that's an impressive achievement by FGW.  Well done to Andrew Haines and his team at FGW for making such very noticeable and welcome improvements.  Obviously there's still more to do, but Andrew does have a 'vote of confidence' from me!

I never met Alison Forster, and I have no need to defend her.  However, things were different when she was in charge - the franchise was in its early days, the integration of Wessex Trains was causing logistical problems, and the timetable was still being cobbled together, for example.  It's perhaps not fair to criticise her for not achieving in the past what Andrew and his new team have been able to achieve now.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by John R at 22:25, 17th September 2008
 
I agree that, with the exception of the rather big wobble around the time of SDO introduction, there has been a big improvement in the last year in my daily commute. And changes elsewhere seem to indicate a much more positive approach to the franchise. So Andrew has my vote too. 

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Electric train at 22:51, 17th September 2008
 
It is true that the fortunes of FGW have improved in the last year, but, there is a lot more slack in the time tabling and NR have improved their performance as well, lifting the unofficial embargo on using some of the crossovers for timetabled line changes just in case they failed.

But there is still some more polished required, like the internal refurb of the 165/6 improvements to the heating and especially aircon in the 166's this class of train are showing their age internally windows that don't shut properly or open the floors, bulkheads etc are grubby and as for the toilets 

But out of 10 may be an 8 the first class off peak upgrade was a nice gesture

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by gaf71 at 08:05, 18th September 2008
 
I think the largest improvement is the massive influx of extra staff, meaning that a train is now rarely cancelled due to a lack of train crew, which was a big problem 12-18 months ago.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Sprog at 08:10, 18th September 2008
 
We finished the period with a PPM of 91.2%.

FGWs target PPM is 86.2%.

Things are improving day-by-day.

Although this weeks PPM will be shot (through no fault of FGW!!) because of yesterday evenings rush-hour Severn Tunnel farce.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Boppy at 11:33, 18th September 2008
 
Hi,

As a customer who commutes between Reading and Paddington I feel that the service has definitely improved and over the last few months I've been very pleased.  I would also like to thank Andrew Haines for the additional Off-Peak First Class upgrade that I hear was his idea to instigate during August!

Boppy.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by r james at 23:39, 18th September 2008
 
I seem to get delayed less now between Bristol and Swansea on the various journeys I make. WHich is good.  Seemed to come a time where  expected it to be late at Bristol.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by ila700 at 22:28, 23rd September 2008
 
First post for me. I joined this site because I wanted to have a whinge. That was earlier this year. I travel between Reading and Paddington daily. I have not posted because having had many weeks of misery in 2007 I can not believe what has happened and all for the better. Andrew Haines definetly has my vote. I am very impressed. I was hoping to meet him at the last meet the manager meeting in Paddington to shake his hand rather than ring his neck. It was there I got talking to one of the network rail chaps and he was telling me about all the things that had been done on the line by the staff and how they had gone about their task with great help from the train operators. It was that last bit that stuck in my head. I remember only too well those flyers left on our seats saying it had nothing to do with FGW which was kidding nobody. Now can Mr Haines do something about the extortionate price of our tickets?           

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Lee at 22:31, 23rd September 2008
 
Welcome to the forum, ila700

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by gpn01 at 16:46, 24th September 2008
 
Much more reliable service compared to a year ago.  Improvement in information given to customers when there have been delays....yep definitely an improved "customer experience".  Well done to everybody at FGW.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Chris2 at 16:58, 24th September 2008
 
In the year that Andrew Haines has been in charge, my opinion of the company has improved significantly. With the announcements of improved services on branch lines in Cornwall. I would like to say thanks as my commute has become a lot more punctual, they still have bad days and delayed trains but they are no where near as severe as they were twelve months ago.

If the improvement continues the way it has in the last twelve months where will we be in twelve months time? Yes there are still some anomalies in service like a gap of over an hour from the 1555 to the 1725 from Plymouth into Cornwall west of Liskeard and other stations that deserve a better service (transwilts). But to be honest I would rate them at least 20 to 30 percent better than they were last year judged on my recent experiences.

I don't know what will happen when crosscountry and first great western update there timetables in December on the Cornish Main Line but hopefully it is another step in the right direction.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by ila700 at 08:08, 26th September 2008
 
Er flamingo. I said that. The networkrail chap cold not have been more complimentary about FGW. What I did not like before was the blame everyone else. With that attitude we were never going to get a decent service. You look as if you are part of that school. Sad   

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by The SprinterMeister at 10:48, 28th September 2008
 
We finished the period with a PPM of 91.2%.

FGWs target PPM is 86.2%.

Things are improving day-by-day.

Although this weeks PPM will be shot (through no fault of FGW!!) because of yesterday evenings rush-hour Severn Tunnel farce.

Tunnel shut again due to some kind of problem yesterday (28-09-08). 1L17 & 2U20 in some kind of contretempt I gather.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by johoare at 18:21, 28th September 2008
 
I think Andrew Haines has done a marvellous job.. I've gone from arriving in Paddington late (sometimes very late) practically every single day, to arriving on time nearly all the time.. The timetable is also a lot better than it was when FGW first changed it..  Although there are still a couple of gaps in the timetable for Maidenhead, I'd much rather it is left as it is as we know that it works!! 

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by grahame at 18:36, 28th September 2008
 
I think Andrew Haines has done a marvellous job.. I've gone from arriving in Paddington late (sometimes very late) practically every single day, to arriving on time nearly all the time.. The timetable is also a lot better than it was when FGW first changed it..  Although there are still a couple of gaps in the timetable for Maidenhead, I'd much rather it is left as it is as we know that it works!! 

Jo, I agree with you over the vast majority of the area.

Just one service that he has NOT yet sorted out - the TransWilts - which connects the five largest towns in Wiltshire with a service that remains not fit for purpose (if you believe that the purpose is carrying passengers when they want to travel rather than meeting the DfT's daft specification).

2 years on, and a service that had been growing dramatically and where the trains were "nesting" (Nearly Every Seat Taken) in the peaks remains reduced to a "marginal time only" service - marginal time being the provision of trains when they're not needed on other lines (and, frankly, there's not much call for them in Wiltshire either).

Pilning too still remains 80% cut (a fifth of its former train service) but it's a small village compared to the TransWilts towns of Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham, Trowbridge, Westbury, Warminster and Salisbury ... which are set to grow 50% in the next 20 years and goodness only knows how the roads will cope.  I flew back into Heathrow on Friday, and found myself using National Express (actually a First group coach with every seat taken, heaters jammed on, windows sealed, no aircon!) to Chippenham and a Taxi - pretty horrid after an 8 hour flight.  We know that in these parts at least, between 8 and 10 people will use the train for every ione who uses the bus.

So - congratulations so far Andrew.   You've shown us what you can do in so many places - now please do it for us in Wiltshire where we have the area that's projected to grow the fastest in the whole South West

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by johoare at 18:41, 28th September 2008
 
I think Andrew Haines has done a marvellous job.. I've gone from arriving in Paddington late (sometimes very late) practically every single day, to arriving on time nearly all the time.. The timetable is also a lot better than it was when FGW first changed it..  Although there are still a couple of gaps in the timetable for Maidenhead, I'd much rather it is left as it is as we know that it works!! 

Jo, I agree with you over the vast majority of the area.

Just one service that he has NOT yet sorted out - the TransWilts - which connects the five largest towns in Wiltshire with a service that remains not fit for purpose (if you believe that the purpose is carrying passengers when they want to travel rather than meeting the DfT's daft specification).

2 years on, and a service that had been growing dramatically and where the trains were "nesting" (Nearly Every Seat Taken) in the peaks remains reduced to a "marginal time only" service - marginal time being the provision of trains when they're not needed on other lines (and, frankly, there's not much call for them in Wiltshire either).

Pilning too still remains 80% cut (a fifth of its former train service) but it's a small village compared to the TransWilts towns of Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham, Trowbridge, Westbury, Warminster and Salisbury ... which are set to grow 50% in the next 20 years and goodness only knows how the roads will cope.  I flew back into Heathrow on Friday, and found myself using National Express (actually a First group coach with every seat taken, heaters jammed on, windows sealed, no aircon!) to Chippenham and a Taxi - pretty horrid after an 8 hour flight.  We know that in these parts at least, between 8 and 10 people will use the train for every ione who uses the bus.

So - congratulations so far Andrew.   You've shown us what you can do in so many places - now please do it for us in Wiltshire where we have the area that's projected to grow the fastest in the whole South West

Oops.. Yes sorry I did mean to write he'd done a marvellous job for Maidenhead to Paddington, as that is the only experience of FGW I have.. I do hope he'll improve the TransWilts service significantly too...

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by grahame at 19:02, 28th September 2008
 

Oops.. Yes sorry I did mean to write he'd done a marvellous job for Maidenhead to Paddington, as that is the only experience of FGW I have.. I do hope he'll improve the TransWilts service significantly too...


Jo, I'm delighted with the improvements you've seen and so have many others, and congratulations on these improvements are in order.  And I'm doubly delighted because it shows us that here is someone who CAN make things happen  

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by grahame at 16:23, 20th November 2008
 
From: http://www.railnews.co.uk/

Top level switch at First Group due to MD illness

FIRST ScotRail managing director Mary Grant has become acting MD of FirstGroup's UK rail division due to the ill health of Andrew Haines.

I have no background on this ... if anyone can fill in or tell us more, it would be great - at the moment with just a single source I'm just saying "uncomfirmed quote".

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Timmer at 17:41, 20th November 2008
 
May I take this opportunity to wish Andrew a speedy recovery. Get Well Soon.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by John R at 18:35, 20th November 2008
 
I second that motion. Get well soon Andrew.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by grahame at 19:20, 20th November 2008
 
If I get a confirmation / second source of this story, I'll be coming right back on to this thread to say some very positive things about Andrew too.   Come to think of it - I'll say some very positive things even if it turns out to be an erroneous report - Andrew has done a great deal [all around], achieved a great deal [notable exception - TransWilts] and sometimes we're far too scant in our priase.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by smithy at 19:56, 20th November 2008
 
i can confirm he is off sick as someone is covering him at FGW think his name is mike dont know surname though,not sure what is wrong with him but it seems like he has been off a while now.

i agree he has done a good job at fgw but a lot still needs doing so wish him all the best for a speedy recovery

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Ollie at 20:13, 20th November 2008
 
Can confirm he is off sick.
At FGW Mark Hopwood is currently Acting Managing Director.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 21:20, 20th November 2008
 
Further details, from Railnews, at http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/business/2008/11/14-first-change.html:

First ScotRail managing director Mary Grant has become acting MD of FirstGroup^s UK rail division due to the ill health of Andrew Haines.

Mr Haines is also chief executive officer of First Great Western, taking over from Alison Forster in September last year at a time when the franchise was beset by performance problems.

During the temporary situation the day-to-day running of FGW has been taken over by acting managing director Mark Hopwood, the performance director for FGW who joined the company after being MD of London Lines.

Steve Montgomery, director of operations and safety for ScotRail, has assumed the position of acting managing director.

Mary Grant has been MD of ScotRail for four years, during which she has won a number of major rail and Scottish business awards.

A spokeswoman for FGW said: ^Andrew is on sick leave at the moment so there have been some changes for the time being.^

I'd like to add my own very best wishes to Andrew for a speedy recovery.  Chris. 

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Super Guard at 23:30, 20th November 2008
 
I read about these changes a couple of weeks ago, and it also said that Andrew Haines would be off for a bit longer, so I don't think this is anything long-term.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Ollie at 13:30, 21st November 2008
 
Yeah SDA it is just whilst he is away.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by smithy at 19:21, 27th November 2008
 
if rumour is to be believed then mr haines has had a nervous breakdown and is not going to be returning to FGW,the same source also said his replacement is from scotrail although i cannot remember her name.

as i said just depot rumour so watch this space i suppose

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Super Guard at 19:23, 27th November 2008
 
I also have heard this rumour today, although no idea how reliable the source is.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Timmer at 20:25, 27th November 2008
 
if rumour is to be believed then mr haines has had a nervous breakdown and is not going to be returning to FGW,the same source also said his replacement is from scotrail although i cannot remember her name.

as i said just depot rumour so watch this space i suppose
Recent reports say that Mary Grant has taken over from Andrew Haines as head of First's rail division for the time being.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Ollie at 23:00, 27th November 2008
 
Ollie doesn't like this kind of speculation about somebodies well being, I just don't think it's appropriate to put rumours on a public forum like this, we already seen how the press use this forum and get it all wrong.

My view is I hope whatever is wrong he is on the mend, because he's a decent guy, and we (fgw) need him back.

For the record, Mary Grant is Acting MD of First UK Rail and Mark Hopwood is Acting MD of FGW

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by John R at 23:16, 27th November 2008
 
I agree with Ollie, in that I think posting speculation about the cause of Andrew Haines' absence is inappropriate, even if such rumours are doing the rounds within FGW.

And like other posters I wish him well and hope he makes a full recovery. He has made such a difference to FGW that I do hope he is well enough to return at some point. 

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Btline at 23:19, 27th November 2008
 
Perhaps this thread should be moved to the frequent posters' club, so that the Joe Bloggs person can't view it.

Nevertheless, I would also like to add "Get well soon" as he has done well.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 23:54, 27th November 2008
 
Thank you to Ollie, John R and Btline for your comments: I agree, and this topic has been moved accordingly.

Chris.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by grahame at 14:26, 28th November 2008
 
Chris - thanks for moving this.   Yes - it was a good idea to move it to the "Frequent Poster's Club" where it can only be read by folks who have reached a certain minimum number of posts.

And, here in "the Club", I'll comment that I have heard a somewhat different background as to why Andrew's not at his post at present ... so "unconfirmed rumour" is very much the best thing to say for the moment (unless of course one rumour's substance has caused the other rumour's effect)

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by devon_metro at 16:55, 2nd December 2008
 
Heard hes returned. Cannot confirm.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Ollie at 09:00, 3rd December 2008
 
I earlier reported on my blog that Andrew Haines will be leaving the company, that is both First GW and First UK Rail.

May I take the opportunity here to wish him well in the future.

http://iworkforfgw.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=153

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Ollie at 09:06, 3rd December 2008
 
I have posted this in the Who's Who bit, but just to confirm in this thread that Andrew will be leaving First Group.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Tim at 09:20, 3rd December 2008
 
Thanks Andrew for your efforts at FGW.  You leave the company in a much better state than when you joined and for should be proud of that

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by IndustryInsider at 11:16, 3rd December 2008
 
Indeed. Huge improvements in the year or so he was in charge. Can't help but think he's left before fully completing the transformation though, and wonder whether his recent sickness has caused this decision as it does seem a bit odd?

Still, it was always the intention to hand over the reins to Mark Hopwood, who's no stranger to being top-dog having performed similar roles at c2c amongst others. Mark's a clever chap - having worked quite closely with him during his early career at Thames Trains in the mid-90's, I can certainly vouch for his determination and abilities. It will be a testing time for him though as filling Andrew's boots will be no mean feat.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Ollie at 11:35, 3rd December 2008
 
Indeed. Huge improvements in the year or so he was in charge. Can't help but think he's left before fully completing the transformation though, and wonder whether his recent sickness has caused this decision as it does seem a bit odd?

It's not worth speculating on why he decided to make his decision at the time he has, it is disappointing to see him leave, as he has done a lot of good for this company.

Still, it was always the intention to hand over the reins to Mark Hopwood, who's no stranger to being top-dog having performed similar roles at c2c amongst others. Mark's a clever chap - having worked quite closely with him during his early career at Thames Trains in the mid-90's, I can certainly vouch for his determination and abilities. It will be a testing time for him though as filling Andrew's boots will be no mean feat.

Agreed, and true about the intention for Mark to eventually take over FGW anyway.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 14:58, 3rd December 2008
 
From the BBC:
Mr Haines said his departure was a personal decision.

"We have made real progress in service delivery at First Great Western and I am confident that the team in place there will continue to make further improvements," he said.

"Having effectively performed two parallel, demanding roles now for some time, I have decided to take some time away from work to consider the best direction for my future career.

"This is entirely my own decision and I am grateful for the support and encouragement of the First Group board during my time with the company."

See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7762683.stm

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Ollie at 15:06, 3rd December 2008
 
Ended up having 3 postings about this:

http://iworkforfgw.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=153
http://iworkforfgw.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=154
http://iworkforfgw.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=155

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Super Guard at 15:27, 3rd December 2008
 
Very sad to hear this news, I would like to thank him for the improvements we have seen and wish him well for the future in whatever path he decides to take.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Timmer at 17:49, 3rd December 2008
 
Very sad to read that Andrew Haines is leaving First Group.

Thank you for all that you have done in turning FGW around this past year. You leave it in one heck of a better state then when you arrived. All the best for the future.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by smithy at 18:17, 3rd December 2008
 
i have also heard he is leaving apparently he was not unwell,him and moir lockhead had a disagreement that resulted in andrew deciding to leave.

i wish andrew well in whatever he does next,afterall he has done a good job in turning things at FGW around lets hope mark hopwood contiues where andrew left off.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by gwr2006 at 20:49, 3rd December 2008
 
As we know Andrew has been off ill for some time so he is rightly putting his health and family first. His reign in charge at FGW has been hugely successful and he and the team he created have turned things around. He will be missed by everyone who met him during his 15 months with the company.  All the best for the future Andrew.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by ReWind at 21:37, 3rd December 2008
 
Any news on a successor?

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 22:01, 3rd December 2008
 
Mark Hopwood, previously Performance Director with FGW.  See http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=1178#Mark

I've met him, and I think he'll be a 'safe pair of hands' in continuing with the task of transforming FGW, which has been started so well by Andrew Haines.

My best wishes for the future to both of them.

Chris. 

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by vacman at 23:55, 3rd December 2008
 
Hopefully your reading this Andrew, thankyou for putting the "Great" back into First Great Western, 12 months ago I was embarresed to put on my FGW uniform, now I feel like it's something to be proud of! Mark Hopwood has a tough act to follow!

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by tramway at 00:42, 4th December 2008
 
Another heartfelt thank you Andrew for what you (and all your staff) have achieved. (Ollie et al also need our thanks.)

For you all.



Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by tramway at 01:40, 4th December 2008
 
The RailwayEye Blog take on the announcement.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by 12hoursunday at 09:44, 11th December 2008
 
Ollie doesn't like this kind of speculation about somebodies well being, I just don't think it's appropriate to put rumours on a public forum like this,

But you've got to accept it Ollie. Smithy's life evolves around railway rumor!

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Lee at 18:23, 24th June 2009
 
The former First rail supremo has a new job...
http://nds.coi.gov.uk/clientmicrosite/Content/Detail.aspx?ClientId=202&NewsAreaId=2&ReleaseID=403920&SubjectId=36

He will officially take up his new position in August.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Timmer at 18:35, 24th June 2009
 
Thats great news to hear Andrew has a new job. Wow Chief Exec of the CAA.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by John R at 19:43, 24th June 2009
 
Congratulations to him.

Though it kind of tells us what we all thought about the reasons for his departure having less to do with his health and more to do with whether his face still fitted.

 

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Phil at 19:52, 24th June 2009
 
Good to hear he's completely off the rails.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Timmer at 22:09, 24th June 2009
 
Though it kind of tells us what we all thought about the reasons for his departure having less to do with his health and more to do with whether his face still fitted.
Doesn't it just. You don't just walk into a top job like that unless you are the person they are looking for.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Ollie at 22:19, 24th June 2009
 
I saw Andrew today, he is doing well, wouldn't give me any clues as to the new job, and said to wait the announcement. I am impressed, glad he's doing so well.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Super Guard at 23:19, 24th June 2009
 
Glad to hear the good news and I and many others i'm sure wish him well in his new role.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Mookiemoo at 00:03, 25th June 2009
 
ok

My initial reaction is........

I have to fly  lot - shit

then I remembered he did good at FGW so I wish him well

(still nervous though FGW <> CAA)


Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by super tm at 17:35, 21st April 2010
 
former MD Andrew Haines is on the front page of the Evening Standard tonight.    Apparantly he is the man who took the decision to shut down the air space last week.  Cost so far ^1 billion and counting.  Puts a few FGW delays costs in the shade 

see link http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ 

Has a picture of him at Paddington in his FGW days

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Ollie at 18:23, 21st April 2010
 
Is it worth mentioning that Andrew Haines was not MD to FGW? Andrew Haines was MD for First UK Rail and Chief Executive Officer of FGW.

It's a shame the Evening Standard looks intent on making him look bad by saying he was in charge of FGW when it got the name Worst Great Western, despite the fact it was known as that before he came in, and it was thanks to him and the team he brought it that it got turned around.

I don't see how he can be solely responsible, it wasn't just UK airspace that got closed. And as far as I could tell over the last few days it wasn't solely his choice.

At work was continuously updating the Heathrow Airport website to see it's updates, and it always mentioned NATS keeping airspace closed.

So leads me to be somewhat confused, and no doubt will cause confusion to others.

Whether closing airspace was the right decision or not, better safe than sorry, if something happened because airspace wasn't closed then again people would be looking for someone to blame anyway.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by vacman at 18:29, 21st April 2010
 
Andrew Haines was the man who turned FGW around!

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by devon_metro at 19:30, 21st April 2010
 
Saw him on BBC Breakfast this morning, it seems the media are keen to jump down the neck of anybody in authority. Clearly they've never heard of hindsight - not that i'd personally choose to fly regardless of the level of ash in the atmosphere.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 at 20:16, 21st April 2010
 
6 days of clear skys , the uks carbon footprint will have been good last week lol!

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Btline at 20:55, 21st April 2010
 
The media always try to find a scapegoat for everything.

Inevitably, Gordon Brown has also been blamed for it. I'm suprised the Murdoch media didn't attempt to pin the eruption on him and all!

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by JayMac at 21:38, 21st April 2010
 
Surely Eyjafjallajoekull* is to blame?!

*No, I can't pronounce it either!

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Adrian the Rock at 21:55, 21st April 2010
 
...It's a shame the Evening Standard looks intent on making him look bad by saying he was in charge of FGW when it got the name Worst Great Western, despite the fact it was known as that before he came in...
... and they couldn't even get the slur right - it was actually know as Worst Late Western!

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 22:07, 21st April 2010
 
Agreed: I've met him - and I reckon Andrew Haines was the best thing for First Great Western in the past three years. 

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Ollie at 22:15, 21st April 2010
 
I don't get why they felt the need to mention how much he gets paid though? Or sorry how much it is estimated he gets paid..

Nice of them to mention it's his birthday today..what a way to spend your birthday,

As far as I am concerned Andrew Haines is a genuinely nice person, he did good things for First..

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Tim at 09:18, 22nd April 2010
 
As far as I am concerned Andrew Haines is a genuinely nice person, he did good things for First..
and good things for the CAA too.  It was him afterall who reopened the airspace!

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Henry at 14:00, 22nd April 2010
 

 Andrew Haines was in a no win situation, in my opinion.

 Dealing with the likes of Michael O'Leary and Willie Walsh, not that they would ever put profit before safety.
 However if an incident had occured, no doubt Mr. Haines would have had been the 'scapegoat'

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 20:55, 22nd April 2010
 
From the BBC:

RAF Typhoon training halted as ash found in engines

Training flights on RAF Typhoons in Lincolnshire have been suspended after ash deposits were found in the engines of four aircraft.
The fleet is being checked at its base in Coningsby, Lincolnshire.
An RAF spokesman said the Typhoons were "very high performance jets" so staff were "just being extra cautious".
According to the BBC's Richard Scott, the Civil Aviation Authority has pointed out that military planes fly much faster and suck in far more air than their civilian counterparts.
It says the work done with manufacturers to clear the UK for flying again did not factor in military jets, which are "a whole different world".
The CAA also says conclusions should not be drawn from the RAF's statement about the air-worthiness of civilian aircraft.
It adds that the all-clear for civilian aircraft to return to the skies still stands and there have been no reports of any ash damage.
Almost all flights across Europe are expected to go ahead on Thursday.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by John R at 21:02, 22nd April 2010
 
As someone caught at the sharp end of this, I would have much rather endured what we did for 5 days than be put at risk (probably without even being told about the risk) if the aviation industry had kept on flying.


Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Tim at 09:11, 23rd April 2010
 
As someone caught at the sharp end of this, I would have much rather endured what we did for 5 days than be put at risk (probably without even being told about the risk) if the aviation industry had kept on flying.



I quite agree.  A balance has to be struck somewhere and the balance that was struck wasn't a million miles from where it should have been IMHO

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by moonrakerz at 15:11, 23rd April 2010
 
From the BBC:

RAF Typhoon training halted as ash found in engines

Training flights on RAF Typhoons in Lincolnshire have been suspended after ash deposits were found in the engines of four aircraft.

According to the BBC's Richard Scott, the Civil Aviation Authority has pointed out that military planes fly much faster and suck in far more air than their civilian counterparts.


Ummm !

The CIVIL Aviation Authority now appears to be an "expert" on military aero engines OR is it Richard Scott ? Who ?
We all know the definition of an "expert".

Most civil engines are totally different to military types. Civil engines tend to be high-bypass ratio engines, this means that much of the air (and ash) doesn't actually go through the really hot bit of the engine.
So comparing military high performance jets with civil airliners is really a bit of a joke !!

The bypass ratio of the engines in a Typhoon is 0.4:1. Concorde's were 0.1:1.
Civil high-bypass engines have ratios starting at about 6:1.
The latest RR Trent engine in the Boeing "Dreamliner" has a bypass ratio of 11:1, or to put it another way, over 90% of the air that goes in the front of the engine doesn't go through the "hot" bit where the ash causes problems.

An extra benefit of high-bypass engines is that they are much quieter too.  Main reason being that the exhaust from one of these engines is travelling a lot slower - which is why they aren't used in military aircraft, they can't be used to make an aircraft go very fast.

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by devon_metro at 16:37, 23rd April 2010
 
I'm just waiting for "Katla" to go. On the 3 occasions that "E..." has erupted, this one has gone up. Oh - and its much, much bigger 

Interestingly, the eruption explosivity was fairly low (the Volcano first erupted on 20th March), however when the eruption changed phases on the 14th April it was the combination of glacial ice and magma that caused the 10km high ash cloud. So blame ice

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by inspector_blakey at 18:20, 23rd April 2010
 
Most civil engines are totally different to military types. Civil engines tend to be high-bypass ratio engines, this means that much of the air (and ash) doesn't actually go through the really hot bit of the engine.
So comparing military high performance jets with civil airliners is really a bit of a joke !!

Erm, isn't that the point? The way I read the article, the CAA is saying that you should not compare military and civil jets in this context, and that the ash deposits in military aircraft are therefore not indicative of a risk to civil airliners...

Re: Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 18:50, 23rd April 2010
 
So blame ice

Ice is being blamed for quite a few things ... from the BBC:

Falling ice damages roof of Bristol house

A lump of ice has left a football-sized hole in the roof of a Bristol house after it fell from the sky.
The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) said it was likely the ice came from water leaking from an aircraft.
It is not the first time ice falling from the sky has damaged property in Bristol.
The roof and guttering of a house four miles away in Downend were damaged in July last year. And the same month a lump of falling ice fell just feet from a man sitting in Stoke Park, near the M32. Similar incidents have happened in Stoke Bishop and Staple Hill.
A spokesman for the CAA said: "We get 20 to 30 of these incidents reported to us a year in the whole of the UK. It's quite rare when you consider there are 3 million movements in UK airspace a year."
He said water leaking from an aircraft turns to ice at high altitudes which falls off as the plane descends into warmer air.
"If the person it happens to has an accurate time of when it happened we will check the air traffic control radar to see what aircraft were in the area, otherwise it's a wild goose chase," the spokesman said.
"There will probably be a handful of aircraft in an area at any time, but we can write to the operators asking them to check their aircraft."
Even if the aircraft is found, any damage caused by the ice will need to be paid for by the home owner's household insurance.

 
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