| Power assisted and small electric vehicles - the UK "legality" issue Posted by grahame at 04:50, 26th July 2025 |     |
Why is it that I see so many people using small electric assisted transport of various types as I travel around - all sorts here in Sweden when I am this week - and yet in the UK our police seem to have state-sponsored vendetta against modes of transport that are green and efficient? Could it be the lack of an ability to tax and make money from them? Could it be the big business (car, insurance, oil) that's being protected? For sure, safety and the legal protection of others need to be taken care of, but are we showing out the baby with the bathwater?
I came across a video by Wiltshire Police - posted onto a "Melksham South Ward" Facebook group which I admin, in which a local policeman goes on about ... oh I will let you watch at https://www.facebook.com/reel/783474100679371/?s=single_unit ... not sure what it has to do specifically with South Ward either.
Here is my review - personal thoughts - as to why that is all so wrong
To be clear - a cycle that has a throttle on the handlebars, and one which has a motor more powerful that the legal maximum for a pedal assisted bicycle, is classified as a motor cycle and in the UK needs to be taxed, registered, probably MOTed, insured and the driver needs a motor cycle license and to wear a crash helment and there may be more. But having met these requirements, it would not be illegal to use it. Self-build vehicles are allowed in the UK, and there is no reason why you cannot purchase parts on the Internet. And there is no "legal requrement" on the size of a motor either - there's a legal maximum and no reason at all for motors on pedal assisted cycles to be as big as that maximum. PC Hackford explains why it breaks the law - my undertanding is that the rider / owner breaks the law in using it without the various elements above, or by selling / supplying it for public road use.
I totally understand the desire and need for things to be safe, and not sold/supplied/built unsafe. But is it my imagination, or do we use this excuse on electric cycles, and on electric scooters and other small elecrtic vehicles to stifle the use of things that are quick and easy ways of getting around? For sure, the police report something of a nightmare in hot pursuits where they cannot get though paths and alleys, but is banning them the solution? I am in Sweden this week and I see people happily travelling around - green and efficient - on all sorts of things. We are throwing out the baby with the bathwater here. I do note that scooters are available for hire in a growing number of cities now - good, and perhaps a sign that it's the state's desire to regulate and control that has allowed them to come in this way. How sad for HMG that they don't make money from taxing bicycles - and is that lack of income and control the real reason why the greenest of assisted ways of getitng around locally is made illegal with the sort of rhetoric that PC Phil Hackford has put together - simplified and distorted so much that it sounds "good" but is plain inaccurfate and incorrect.
I totally understand the desire and need for things to be safe, and not sold/supplied/built unsafe. But is it my imagination, or do we use this excuse on electric cycles, and on electric scooters and other small elecrtic vehicles to stifle the use of things that are quick and easy ways of getting around? For sure, the police report something of a nightmare in hot pursuits where they cannot get though paths and alleys, but is banning them the solution? I am in Sweden this week and I see people happily travelling around - green and efficient - on all sorts of things. We are throwing out the baby with the bathwater here. I do note that scooters are available for hire in a growing number of cities now - good, and perhaps a sign that it's the state's desire to regulate and control that has allowed them to come in this way. How sad for HMG that they don't make money from taxing bicycles - and is that lack of income and control the real reason why the greenest of assisted ways of getitng around locally is made illegal with the sort of rhetoric that PC Phil Hackford has put together - simplified and distorted so much that it sounds "good" but is plain inaccurfate and incorrect.
| Re: Power assisted and small electric vehicles - the UK "legality" issue Posted by TaplowGreen at 07:51, 26th July 2025 | |
I think "state sponsored vendetta" is overstating it somewhat and a lot of people are heartily sick and tired of having to dive for cover when e-bikes/scooters etc come flying around corners/down the pavement at considerable speed with those on board apparently oblivious to pedestrians.
Also being used on the road by delivery drivers/riders with little or no regard for the law or highway code.
I appreciate that by no means all users are irresponsible, but a balance has to be struck and it's the Police/Ambulance service who end up having to pick up/scrape up the pieces, so they are right to be concerned and enforce where appropriate.
Keeping people safe is the Government's first responsibility.
| Re: Power assisted and small electric vehicles - the UK "legality" issue Posted by Electric train at 08:13, 26th July 2025 | |
Grahame the population of Sweden is smaller than that of London with Sweden is twice the Sq km of the UK the density of population Sweden is 25 people per square km, the UK has a density of 281 per square km. Based on risk of death and injury in a collision involving a small electric assisted transport the risk in Sweden is much lower than the UK.
In the UK we need to have regulation / registration and control, with the requirement for insurance over all powered transport used in public places, that is why in 1977 there restrictions placed on 50cc motorbikes for 16 year olds with L plates; the requirement for crash helmets for motor bike uses and seat belts in cars all driven by the number of deaths and serious injury
| Re: Power assisted and small electric vehicles - the UK "legality" issue Posted by John D at 08:22, 26th July 2025 | |
The worst I have ever seen, was an old guy on one of those 4 wheel mobility shopping vehicles with clear plastic rain roof.
But wasn't pottering along the pavement, he was driving in middle lane of 3 on A13 dual carriageway near Barking, causing traffic chaos.
If ever there was need for enforcement for safety reasons that was it.
| Re: Power assisted and small electric vehicles - the UK "legality" issue Posted by Marlburian at 10:19, 26th July 2025 | |
Oh, the irony. I was a very keen cyclist, accumulating 270,000 miles, including some utility journeys, such as in the 1960s the 15 miles between Sidmouth and Exeter libraries - and back. I thought then that "two wheels" was an excellent way for someone to get around, rather than them occupying a metal box of, say, 75 square feet. Today this is even more my opinion with the advent of SUVs. (A friend of mine recently bought one, and for 95 per cent of her mileage is the sole occupant; she complains of having to squeeze into hedges on country roads and getting her car's bodywork scratched.)
"Small electric assisted transport" has several desirable factors, but its misuse by a significant proportion of people, as mentioned by Taplow Green, brings it into disrepute. Many police forces are making token efforts to control it, seizing the occasional illegal machine and proudly proclaiming the fact. But on any trip to Reading town centre one can see a dozen more of dubious legality. Some people see them as the most popular delivery service for drugs.
| Re: Power assisted and small electric vehicles - the UK "legality" issue Posted by grahame at 11:30, 26th July 2025 | |
I am aware (you may have guessed) that my original post was a somewhat provocative extreme, but the inaccuracies of the Wiltshire PC really got my goat this morning ... brief follow up here as ... limited battery life and I'm going easy online to leave more power to take photos like have never been on the Coffee Shop before.
| Re: Power assisted and small electric vehicles - the UK "legality" issue Posted by broadgage at 12:31, 26th July 2025 | |
In my view, the use of small and lightweight electric vehicles should be encouraged in order to reduce fossil fuel use and local air pollution.
The law should be simplified, AND ENFORCED.
I would suggest that all electrically powered or electrically assisted vehicles, should be placed in one of three categories.
Group one. For vehicles primarily pedal powered, but with limited electric assistance. Maximum speed under electric power or electric assistance 15 MPH. Maximum empty weight 25 kilos.
Treat as cycles, no requirement for any licence, formal training, road tax, or safety hat.
Group two. For vehicles primarily electrically powered, with or without pedals, Maximum speed 30 MPH, maximum empty weight 40 kilos. Requires a basic licence, granted after passing a basic driving test, and a full theory test, third party insurance, number plates, and hard hat required. Road tax exempt. Rider to be at least 14. Brake lights and turn signals required.
Group three. No limit on speed or weight, treat as motorcycles. Full motorcycle licence needed, approved helmet required, road tax charged.
Or something similar, but keeping it simple.
Group one would also include pedestrian operated vehicles with electric assistance, carts for transporting luggage and light freight, or children. Prams and baby buggies.
| Re: Power assisted and small electric vehicles - the UK "legality" issue Posted by ChrisB at 17:45, 26th July 2025 | |
The Swedes are generally law-abiding -= they'll ride only where they should, and if you need insurance they'll have it.
The Brits (I hate that word)/British don't do either. Ride wherever they like & provide the shortish route from A to B & try & get away without insurance.
I don't blame the UK Government. I also wish we were more 'Swedish'....
| Re: Power assisted and small electric vehicles - the UK "legality" issue Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 18:43, 26th July 2025 | |
| Re: Power assisted and small electric vehicles - the UK "legality" issue Posted by grahame at 05:59, 27th July 2025 | |
2 x 2 carriage class 158 train, with the "A" end outer on both units? Sometimes to be seen in places like Salisbury ...
