From last month's GWR Community Rail conference





Now - perhaps we should look to the time when these are a daily site and people ask "why are you posting another picture of a GWR water bottle"?

The second picture says 'Engaging communities in their railways".  Should alternate bottle say "Engaging railways in their communities", or is there enough of that already?

 

It's not just water fountains the app will point you to. Several well known brands will also fill up your bottle from their taps for free. eg. Costa, Starbucks, Wetherspoons etc. Don't know if every outlet will do this but the app is very useful in pinpointing your nearest options.

 
There's a phone app available called Refill which shows the locations of free water fountains around the country. There's some information about it here:

https://refill.org.uk/get-the-refill-app/

As an example it shows that one is available on Platform 12 at PAD.

 
I agree that provision of a drinking water tap should not be complicated in most cases.
Vandal resistant taps are not hard to source or expensive. Almost all stations have a mains water supply, if not on the platform then at some other part of the station.

Useful not just for humans but also for dogs.

 
To answer your question grahame, the Temple Meads tap is the much trumpeted one by Network Rail. Methinks, they should have consulted the Romans who knew a little more about the storage and transportation of water. Indeed I think one or two of their 11 aqueducts in and around Rome are still in use today !

 
It's very easy to get bogged down on this issue which is what has happened in my home town of Bradford on Avon, where the Town Council secured funding for 3 new water fountains months ago, and even bought the fountains, but none are yet operating because they have tied themselves up in red tape.
The station at BoA must have a water supply from which staff fill their kettle, and fitting an outside tap is a few hours work for a plumber.
There are always reasons not to do things but we need to cut through the red tape and just do it on some issues.
If we want more people to travel by rail, which is absolutely the right way to go compared to travelling by car, we need to make life easy and promote the full range of environmental measures to help people make the right choices.
ps. thank you for letting me post on this issue!

 

Is that the/a water fountain trumpeted by Network Rail last month, or a predecessor tap?

https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/passengers-take-on-plastic-with-refill-revolution - press release dated 18th June 2019.



Welcome to the forum, Johnp1234 . 

Chuffed's answer above starts to answer you (and show some thought has been given to this) for the very largest 20 or so stations in Great Britain. But the other 2500 or so are under the management of franchised train operating companies, all of which (except Cross Country) manage the stations at which they're the predominant or only operator.

In our own neck of the woods, GWR operate 207 stations and they too are aware of the desire to reuse bottles - at the recent Community Rail conference they were handing the out, and indeed I have one on my desk as I write.  However, there's a considerable issue in actually providing suitable water to fill the bottles at many stations.

As an example, there is no water main onto the platform at my home station of Melksham. As and when safety briefed volunteers look after the planters there, they tend to have to carry water with them when they come to the station, or beg water from a couple of the local businesses which neighbour the station. Speaking with others right across Great Britain, this is a far from unique situation - indeed, I suspect it applies to the majority of stations.  I would suspect, though, that the smaller stations are worse off.

Carrying on with my example, there's a building that the Melksham Rail User Group would very much like to see in use as a cafe and with toilets, information, etc - owned by Wiltshire Council and just across from the station.  However, even there, there's an issue because the water supply into the building is through old lead pipes and the lead content in the water is (I'm lead to understand) some eight time what is acceptable.  Fine for the loos, but not for a cafe or to drink.  I don't know if our problem is unique - but so much railway infrastructure dates back to the age of lead pipes and even where the old station has been demolished and something else put on top, the problem still exists.

Staff turning a tap off at night ... are you looking at staffed stations, and then ones that are staffed up into the evening  - but having asked that, I would suggest that a vandal proof (next problem!) tap which is spring loaded and only supplied water when pressed would be the answer.

OK - that's my penneth - anyone one else with thoughts??


 

 
Already one in between the ladies and the gents in the Temple Meads subway. Very slow flow and nearer to warm than lukewarm. Not recommended. The fountains I encountered in Rome last week, in even more arid conditions, were cold clear and with a good strong flow. The plastic bottle merchants between the Vic Em monument and the Colloseum had very very few takers.

 
Many people travelling by train are choosing to do so, rather than by car, for environmental reasons, and are also very switched on to the "plastic-free" message. However few if any stations have a tap where people can easily fill up a water bottle. It would be great if each station had an easily accessible tap for drinking water. It doesn't need to be a complicated fountain, just an outside tap, and if there is concern about water wastage, staff could turn the supply off overnight.

 
OK, I'll bite. What have you got against Wetherspoons' beer? They usually have a range of real and craft ales, more recently adding BrewDog products. The BeeHive at Gatwick is in a great location for people-watching. What's not to like?

 

Let's hope Wetherspoons water is better than their beer! 🙂

 

I've also used one at Gatwick South terminal, upstairs between the Granary Store and World Duty Free. You can also refill an empty bottle in any catering outlet.

There are probably others. It's ridiculous how much some airports charge for a bottle of water. At WH Smith it is cheaper to buy a Daily Telegraph which comes with a free bottle of water! You can then throw away the newspaper (in the recycling bin of course).

 
They are surfacing at airports too in an attempt to cut down on the number of plastic bottles used and are being installed through the generosity of the water industry.

The one at Bristol Airport is on the left as you walk up the ramp which leads to Gate 26 (and others) but isn't restricted to passengers who have to board at Gate 26 or the other gates in that particular boarding area. At airports for obvious reasons they are behind the security clearance areas but may also be in the check-in area cos there is a sink installed before security for passengers to dispose of liquids and then take the empty plastic bottle through via the stout plastic trays with the rest of their possessions and refill with local tap water.

I know I've done it.

 
Went to Guildford again on Sunday. The covers are off. It's a bottle refill point. When it's warm I often carry a re-usable bottle of water with me. I had not known until earlier this year that there were many national outlets that would refill with tap water without question. Costa, Wetherspoons and others (No purchase required) https://refill.org.uk

 
I saw this at Guildford station today. I'm not sure if it's going to be a water fountain or an automatic water bottle refill point such as those available at Gatwick and probably other places too. During the warmer months I will be appreciating this facility.

 
As a lad on holiday in Southampton I went round USS Forrestal an aircraft carrier and was struck by the number of water fountains all over the ship. As well as pipes for aviation fuel etc. there were chilled water pipes everywhere.

I am trying to think of water fountains on stations and I'm not sure, I think they were more likely to found on the street by horse troughs for instance or in parks.

 

Spike Milligan had this simple solution to sea sickness: "Stand under a tree".

 

I think there's a big difference between passengers en route, and mere passers-by. Someone who is at a station with a valid ticket to travel could reasonably be considered to be covered by a duty of care, so one would presume that 'the rail industry' would have to make sure that they didn't die of thirst while waiting for their train.

Someone at or near a station without a ticket to travel would not be covered by such a duty of care, even if they were dying of thirst.

However if someone at or near a station without a ticket to travel picked up mononucleosis from a station drinking fountain, then I suspect they'd have a good case if they sued the owner and the fountain was found not to comply with modern regulations - which would be the case if it shot the water straight up, or the spout was not covered to make it impossible to touch it with your mouth, or if the jet of water was less than 100mm.

I suspect that a lot of drinking fountains in the UK didn't meet the hygeine requirements, and it was easier to rip them out than to replace them.

 

I once took a cross channel ferry that took some 36 hours ... a storm blew up, and some **** had filled the bow thruster tanks with water not diesel, so we had to ride up and down the channel in the storm waiting for it to subside enough for us to get into port.  I could digress and tell you what it was like on board!

We took with us, and purchased, enough liquid for our use on the crossing.  And  those of us who could keep food and drink down were pretty well plied during the crossing extension.   But I'll contend that if the ferry operator had failed to provide drinks, or had charged so much that people couldn't afford them, and someone had suffered damage as a result, a case against them would have been possible and very likely winnable!

 
I know someone who caught food poisoning off the spout of a fountain - both tested positive for the same bugs....

 
I suspect it's not as clear cut as that, else why do FGW hand out free drinks on sauna trains when they're delayed or far hotter than a reasonable person would expect and why make general announcements telling people to drink enough?

Find A Fountain's FAQ says "Drinking water from public fountains is generally safe as there are many regulations in place to help protect the public from the potential hazards caused by drinking water fountains. These regulations include water filters at the source and a covered spout to help prevent people's lips from touching the spout. A covered spout also helps prevent the water that was splashed on the mouth from splashing back onto the spout. Furthermore, there is an advised minimum height requirement for the water flow. To adhere to health and safety regulations, the water must flow at least at 4 inches high, so a cup may be placed under the spout."

Never mind Oregon, has anyone ever been sued in England for a disease problem with a modern drinking fountain?

 
You can't sue someone for dehydration. Duty of care to yourself requires you to carry water if you so require it.

On the other hand, catching something off a fountain coz the previous user had a notifiable disease could well be cause to sue.

 
I've got a vague recollection of one on platform 4 at Bristol Temple Meads but I can't see it on any photographs and I wonder if the vending machine (bottled water) is where it was. Something to check next time I change trains there.

London is installing new water fountains, so I don't think there's a serious barrier. I guess the paranoid have to decide which is the worse risk: being sued for dehydration because only bottled water is available on the sauna trains and at stations or being sued for drinking fountains...

 
The article linked to above mainly refers to the situation in the USA when water from a private well is supplied for drinking.
Such water is not always potable, and even if tested and found to be safe may not remain safe.

Virtualy all areas of the UK have a piped water supply that is fit to drink.
Designing the drinking fountain so as to be hygeinic is relatively easy, the Victorians managed it !

 
I think a lot of public drinking fountains were removed decades ago because of fears over hygeine (see this article for example). It's not just the cost of providing the fountain, it's also the public liability if someone claims to get ill after using it.

 
IMHO drinking fountains OUGHT to be provided as a public service, I do not recall ever seeing one at a rail station.

A drinking fountain is not costly, and the relatively small columes of water used for drinking are trivial in cost as compared to the larger volumes used for other purposes.
At a small station, a single drinking fountain should suffice, but at busy locations more would be needed.
No special water treatment or special water supply is needed, the mains water is fit to drink.

The regular consumption of bottled water is very wastful of both money and the energy used in making the bottles, transporting them and disposing of the resultant rubbish.

Providing drinking water fountains at rail stations would significantly reduce the volumes of rubbish to be disposed of since a fair bit of it seems to consist of water bottles.

 
I think they'd rather sell you over-priced bottled water. 

 
I've never seen a drinking fountain at any station, let alone one served by First Great Western.

 
I don't have any information on your very interesting query, mjray - but may I offer you a very warm welcome to the Coffee Shop forum! 

 
Does anyone know which GW stations have water drinking fountains and whether they are outside the ticket barriers, on the platforms or in the toilets (free or paid)?  Would be useful to know this for summer travelling.

Some fountains are shown on osm.org and some are on findafountain.org but there's a lot missing and I've yet to spot a GW station one on their maps.