| Re: Bus Service 205 Posted by stuving at 20:00, 15th June 2025 |     |
That is probably because Eurostar didn't want to respond. They would have seen the consultation
There is a very long list of "stakeholders consulted with" - over 500 of them - which I presume were actively contacted. It does not include the operators of any of the railway services relevant here, nor Network Rail (station owners and managers). (Abellio is named but that will be for buses.) ASLEF and RMT are, however in the list, as is National Grid. It's enough to start people muttering about judicial reviews!
| Re: Bus Service 205 Posted by ChrisB at 19:01, 15th June 2025 | |
That is probably because Eurostar didn't want to respond. They would have seen the consultation
| Re: Bus Service 205 Posted by grahame at 18:03, 15th June 2025 | |
Thanks for that - I have mirrored the full report at https://www.passenger.chat/mirror/end_205_report.pdf . I searched the document for "Eurostar" and didn't find any mention or response.
| Re: Bus Service 205 Posted by stuving at 17:41, 15th June 2025 | |
TfL did put out a consultation - and I thought it got a mention somewhere in these pages about a year ago? Anyway, if didn't, I did hear about it & responded negatively, so the word was got out.
Not sure I recall the consultation from the Coffee Shop (or anywhere else) but certainly the press commented about it being consulted in London (or perhaps London and the South East) which perhaps wouldn't pick up the concerns of the long distance flows.
I wonder if GWR or Eurostar responded to TfL's consultation - whether they were invited and their opinions on this.
Press did comment that there was substantial negative response in the consultation but it's going ahead anyway.
Full details are in the consultation report - from the consultation's page. Both GWR and Chiltern did provide inputs; GWR's was this (not verbatim):
Great Western Railway (GWR) start by saying the 205 bus service provides good opportunities for passengers arriving via rail at London Paddington Station, to make onward journeys to London Marylebone, Euston, Kings Cross, St Pancras and Liverpool Street stations via Bus (and vice versa).
They say they do not support the withdrawal of service 205. Giving multiple reasons
• GWR note London Underground / Elizabeth Line Services operate to / from Paddington to stations listed above. But highlight a selection of passengers will choose to make an interconnecting journey via bus (i.e., on the 205). There may be numerous reasons, including the interchange onto a ‘tube’ service seen as challenging due to stairs or perceived unfamiliar environment of the Underground system
• Passengers with mobility impairments, luggage, buggies, or wheelchair users may prefer to utilise the bus connection for ease. Noting the current 205 service operates door to door at street level between key London Rail Termini
• Underground stations and accessibility. A ramp to assist with boarding is still required at London Paddington and Kings Cross underground stations. Passengers with mobility impairments, luggage, buggies, or wheelchair users may prefer to utilise the bus connection for ease. Also GWR note that Euston Square Underground station is step free in the Westbound Direction only
• The also flag that HS2 construction work in the next decade, at Old Oak Common, will mean services diverted to London Euston frequently. Having multiple methods of transport available for passengers to make the interchange to /from Paddington/ Euston will reduce obstacles resulting from this engineering work
• Also noted is the role of the 205 when the London Underground / Elizabeth route is closed during service disruption and engineering work. GWR feel that if the proposal went ahead, connecting journeys between National Rail Stations would be more challenging, with multiple changes required either via bus or alternative London Underground routes (such as Bakerloo Line)
GWR conclude by repeating that retaining passenger choice of two modes of connection options (tube / bus) between London Paddington and other key London termini enables confidence and ease for the passenger. Especially in the event of service disruption to either tube or bus. They a bus connection to remain between London Paddington and various key London Termini currently served by bus 205.
They say they do not support the withdrawal of service 205. Giving multiple reasons
• GWR note London Underground / Elizabeth Line Services operate to / from Paddington to stations listed above. But highlight a selection of passengers will choose to make an interconnecting journey via bus (i.e., on the 205). There may be numerous reasons, including the interchange onto a ‘tube’ service seen as challenging due to stairs or perceived unfamiliar environment of the Underground system
• Passengers with mobility impairments, luggage, buggies, or wheelchair users may prefer to utilise the bus connection for ease. Noting the current 205 service operates door to door at street level between key London Rail Termini
• Underground stations and accessibility. A ramp to assist with boarding is still required at London Paddington and Kings Cross underground stations. Passengers with mobility impairments, luggage, buggies, or wheelchair users may prefer to utilise the bus connection for ease. Also GWR note that Euston Square Underground station is step free in the Westbound Direction only
• The also flag that HS2 construction work in the next decade, at Old Oak Common, will mean services diverted to London Euston frequently. Having multiple methods of transport available for passengers to make the interchange to /from Paddington/ Euston will reduce obstacles resulting from this engineering work
• Also noted is the role of the 205 when the London Underground / Elizabeth route is closed during service disruption and engineering work. GWR feel that if the proposal went ahead, connecting journeys between National Rail Stations would be more challenging, with multiple changes required either via bus or alternative London Underground routes (such as Bakerloo Line)
GWR conclude by repeating that retaining passenger choice of two modes of connection options (tube / bus) between London Paddington and other key London termini enables confidence and ease for the passenger. Especially in the event of service disruption to either tube or bus. They a bus connection to remain between London Paddington and various key London Termini currently served by bus 205.
| Re: Bus Service 205 Posted by grahame at 17:19, 15th June 2025 | |
TfL did put out a consultation - and I thought it got a mention somewhere in these pages about a year ago? Anyway, if didn't, I did hear about it & responded negatively, so the word was got out.
Not sure I recall the consultation from the Coffee Shop (or anywhere else) but certainly the press commented about it being consulted in London (or perhaps London and the South East) which perhaps wouldn't pick up the concerns of the long distance flows.
I wonder if GWR or Eurostar responded to TfL's consultation - whether they were invited and their opinions on this.
Press did comment that there was substantial negative response in the consultation but it's going ahead anyway.
| Re: Bus Service 205 Posted by ChrisB at 15:09, 15th June 2025 | |
TfL did put out a consultation - and I thought it got a mention somewhere in these pages about a year ago? Anyway, if didn't, I did hear about it & responded negatively, so the word was got out.
| Re: Bus Service 205 Posted by stuving at 12:24, 15th June 2025 | |
I understand the 30 is changing too and will provide a route as far as Euston from the current 205 stops too.
No - the 30 won't run west of Euston. The Paddington-Euston (and Kings Cross too) route will be covered by 27 and 205, each part-way and overlapping.
| Re: Bus Service 205 Posted by grahame at 08:10, 15th June 2025 | |
Your best bet in probably getting an 18 from bus stop R at "Bishops Bridge Road/Little Venice" (really between the two) which goes to Euston station itself. That's pretty close to Paddington - the traipse from Euston to St Pancras is longer, though still quicker in many cases than another bus.
Many ideas - and thanks for that one. I understand the 30 is changing too and will provide a route as far as Euston from the current 205 stops too.
I have dropped TfL a note asking for official advice ... let's see how / if they respond.
I am a repeated but not frequent use of bus service 205 from Paddington to St Pancras, interchanging from main line trains from Wiltshire where I live to onward services via Eurostar and also to places like Cambridge. I am also a passenger advocate advising others how best to travel and a number of us have mobility and sensory issues that mean we need to minimise interchanges, distance moved and level changes, even if lifts are provided.
I am disappointed to read that the through bus will no longer run from Paddington to Kings Cross as from a weeks time. We heard this news late in the day as I understand that consultations have been with London residents - which we are not - we are visitors who together help make your city work and help you justify the public transport which is usually very good.
1. What consultation was done and reach put out to groups like ours who use London's services but don't live there?
2. Is there an alternative I have missed of direct surface provision that works without an extra interchange for those who find the underground difficult?
You say "no personal information" BUT you are very welcome to share my details and get back in touch as appropriate - indeed I encourage you to do so to help make systems / alternatives better and well known - Graham
I am disappointed to read that the through bus will no longer run from Paddington to Kings Cross as from a weeks time. We heard this news late in the day as I understand that consultations have been with London residents - which we are not - we are visitors who together help make your city work and help you justify the public transport which is usually very good.
1. What consultation was done and reach put out to groups like ours who use London's services but don't live there?
2. Is there an alternative I have missed of direct surface provision that works without an extra interchange for those who find the underground difficult?
You say "no personal information" BUT you are very welcome to share my details and get back in touch as appropriate - indeed I encourage you to do so to help make systems / alternatives better and well known - Graham
| Re: Bus Service 205 Posted by John D at 20:32, 14th June 2025 | |
Appears 205 is being diverted from Baker Street to go to Marble Arch, as a replacement for 30 (withdrawn Euston-Marble Arch).
Clearly TfL money saving idea
| Re: Bus Service 205 Posted by stuving at 20:13, 14th June 2025 | |
Your best bet in probably getting an 18 from bus stop R at "Bishops Bridge Road/Little Venice" (really between the two) which goes to Euston station itself. That's pretty close to Paddington - the traipse from Euston to St Pancras is longer, though still quicker in many cases than another bus.
| Re: Bus Service 205 Posted by grahame at 19:13, 14th June 2025 | |
27 to any stop between Baker Street & Warren Street & change at same stop for the 205
Indeed, Chris. Another change, another 10 minutes, another messing about with luggage and any mobilty aids, another change for people unfamiliar with the transfer to get confused/lost and an opportunity to get cold and perhaps wet.
Oh - and another chance to take a "where is this" quiz picture.
| Re: Bus Service 205 Posted by ChrisB at 18:45, 14th June 2025 | |
27 to any stop between Baker Street & Warren Street & change at same stop for the 205
| Re: Bus Service 205 Posted by grahame at 17:11, 14th June 2025 | |
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/london-bus-route-cuts-tfl-30-205-euston-paddington-marble-arch-b1229839.html
More to follow on this ... but I am in conference today
Follow up posted to the International Group I'm in ... hence the bias here:
As from 21st June 2025, Paddington Station will NO LONGER be served by bus route 205 to Euston, St Pancras International, Kings Cross and Liverpool Street. This bus route has been my personal recommendation for passengers arriving in London from the West Country, Bristol, South Wales and the Cotswolds carrying on to Eurostar services to France, Belgium and The Netherlands.
There is no suggested bus alternative. Bus route 46 does run from Paddington to St Pancras, but takes you a very long route through North London and takes nearly an hour for the journey. The London Underground Circle line, and Hammersmith and Ciry lines, both run from Paddington (Platform 16) taking between 12 and 15 minutes to Kings Cross St Pancras. None of these direct journeys are included on the Interrail / Eurail pass.
You can use your Interrrail / Eurail Pass from Paddington (platform A - entrance from near platform 1) to Farringdon on the Elizabeth line, and change there onto a northbound Thameslink train from platform 4 to St Pancras.
The 205 was a very useful way for those with heavy luggage and in wheelchairs / with limited mobilty to get from trains from the West of London to International services from St Pancras and services for North East of London.
An article in The Standard alerted me to news of the change and told of consultations with local residents. It acknoeldged that the change is an unpopular one, but told us that the change has been made for cost and efficiency reasons, promising a better service on the remains of the route which - however - does not serve Paddington. No mention is made in the article of consultation with long distance / limited mobility customers for whom this was the best cross-London option
| Re: Bus Service 205 Posted by grahame at 13:27, 14th June 2025 | |
Ouch
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/london-bus-route-cuts-tfl-30-205-euston-paddington-marble-arch-b1229839.html
More to follow on this ... but I am in conference today
| Re: Bus Service 205 Posted by grahame at 12:43, 14th June 2025 | |
Ouch
| Bus Service 205 Posted by rogerw at 12:30, 14th June 2025 | |
As an occasional user of this service I was disappointed to learn that Paddington will no longer be served from 21 June, with buses being diverted from Baker Street to Marble Arch, replacing service 30. the 205 was a useful link from Paddington to Euston, St Pancras, Kings Cross and Liverpool Street stations, those journeys now requiring a change en-route. The only mainline terminal station served by a direct bus from Paddington is Victoria
