hello to all from fgw driver

[whole diary]

[vacman]

Think it might be a good idea not to start WW3!

dont get me wrong i am not trying to start ww3 i am just expressing my view about the us and them attitude the hst crews seem to have.
it is almost like they think they are better than us,i must stress this is not all of em but you do come across a lot like it.
maybe hstdriver can enlighten us why there seems to be this attitude towards us? afterall we are all 1 big family now

yeah right! One big family with a massive division down the middle! I'm ex wessex like you Smithy, and the attitude of some (not all) HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) crews stink! Ever get the look down the nose and ignore thing? Life's too short!

It's split 3 ways!!!! SOME HST^▸ (High Speed Train) crews, the ones who treat wessex crews like sh1t also treat LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) crews like sh1t! I find that most drivers/TM^‡(resolve)'s are OK, it's usually the customer host's/restaurant crews that are the worst.

[vacman]

Think it might be a good idea not to start WW3!

dont get me wrong i am not trying to start ww3 i am just expressing my view about the us and them attitude the hst crews seem to have.
it is almost like they think they are better than us,i must stress this is not all of em but you do come across a lot like it.
maybe hstdriver can enlighten us why there seems to be this attitude towards us? afterall we are all 1 big family now

maybe its the way that west crews are left alone by fgw crew management. maybe its the way that some of the west crew walk around like they have wrapped themselves in gaffa tape and rolled around in a dust bath. maybe its the way that some of your west colleagues want the same money as hss crew but dont want to work a train with 500+ people on it to London and all the grief that entails.

maybe those are some of the reasons why

Sorry, I think that West guards do just as much, or MORE work than HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) guards! stations every two mins, trains that are WEDGED, most west crews have to refuse travel to passengers on a DAILY basis, how often does that happen on HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s??? only when something goes wrong! Some HSS guards should try working the St Ives in summer, 4 coaches+400 people on EVERY train between 1000 and 1800 with 3 min turn arounds at each end, and they always stay on time!!!! Yes, TM^‡(resolve)'s do sometimes work hard aswell but don't under estimate what a west conductor does! You think that conductors don't get grief on Cardiff-Pompey services???

[Tickets Please]

Think it might be a good idea not to start WW3!

dont get me wrong i am not trying to start ww3 i am just expressing my view about the us and them attitude the hst crews seem to have.
it is almost like they think they are better than us,i must stress this is not all of em but you do come across a lot like it.
maybe hstdriver can enlighten us why there seems to be this attitude towards us? afterall we are all 1 big family now

maybe its the way that west crews are left alone by fgw crew management. maybe its the way that some of the west crew walk around like they have wrapped themselves in gaffa tape and rolled around in a dust bath. maybe its the way that some of your west colleagues want the same money as hss crew but dont want to work a train with 500+ people on it to London and all the grief that entails.

maybe those are some of the reasons why

Sorry, I think that West guards do just as much, or MORE work than HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) guards! stations every two mins, trains that are WEDGED, most west crews have to refuse travel to passengers on a DAILY basis, how often does that happen on HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s??? only when something goes wrong! Some HSS guards should try working the St Ives in summer, 4 coaches+400 people on EVERY train between 1000 and 1800 with 3 min turn arounds at each end, and they always stay on time!!!! Yes, TM^‡(resolve)'s do sometimes work hard aswell but don't under estimate what a west conductor does! You think that conductors don't get grief on Cardiff-Pompey services???

yawn.....try working the hereford with selective door opening. try asking someone to pay up to ^250 for a return in 1st class. try managing staff who dont want to do any work, try selling thousands of pounds of tickets in a day and not even getting any personal commision. hmmm makes you wonder why none of the west conductors want to apply for hss tm vacancies if hss tm's have it so easy. maybe they want to carry on working units up the beach line and get more money for doing no more work or taking on no more responsibility.

[John R]

Think we got a steer from Graham on the tone of this discussion?

[Tickets Please]

Think it might be a good idea not to start WW3!

dont get me wrong i am not trying to start ww3 i am just expressing my view about the us and them attitude the hst crews seem to have.
it is almost like they think they are better than us,i must stress this is not all of em but you do come across a lot like it.
maybe hstdriver can enlighten us why there seems to be this attitude towards us? afterall we are all 1 big family now

maybe its the way that west crews are left alone by fgw crew management. maybe its the way that some of the west crew walk around like they have wrapped themselves in gaffa tape and rolled around in a dust bath. maybe its the way that some of your west colleagues want the same money as hss crew but dont want to work a train with 500+ people on it to London and all the grief that entails.

maybe those are some of the reasons why

not strictly true,yes they do want same money but majority also want to work hss but refuse to until harmonised.
on the other hand will hss crews want to work local trains say down the beach?i think not.
in my opinion going to london is less grief,limited stops,mainly green signals and rarely check tickets so it is swings and roundabouts.
the remark about gaffa tape and dust baths is only applicable to a small minority of which some hss crews are the same.
it is basically a case of hss think they are better than us.

your ignorance on what its like to work hss services says it all to be honest. going to london is less grief? limited stops? mainly green signals? and rarely checking tickets? not sure what services you have been on. you havent been on the morning or evening hereford services then? you havent been on a HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) service on the b & h stopping at theale and thatcham trying to work SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening), load bicycles etc etc and maintain correct departure time.

the fact of the matter is - some west crews ignore hss, some hss crews ignore west - west crews have their own issues and hss crews have their own.

[Tickets Please]

Think we got a steer from Graham on the tone of this discussion?

look, life isnt all happy clappy lets love one another - so threads of on here arnt always going to be harmonious and lovey dovey.

its called being entitled to ones opinion. nothing is being said in a rude or offensive manner, if you dont want to read the thread then dont open it up in your browser

[Lee]

Think we got a steer from Graham on the tone of this discussion?

look, life isnt all happy clappy lets love one another - so threads of on here arnt always going to be harmonious and lovey dovey.

its called being entitled to ones opinion. nothing is being said in a rude or offensive manner, if you dont want to read the thread then dont open it up in your browser

grahame's main point was as follows :

Let's discuss them by all means, but let's not turn it into a competition where everyone tries to come up with winners and loosers; ALL roles / services are vital and there simply is no competition!

This steer is perfectly reasonable, and abiding by it doesnt restrict anyone from putting forward their point of view.

[vacman]

Think it might be a good idea not to start WW3!

dont get me wrong i am not trying to start ww3 i am just expressing my view about the us and them attitude the hst crews seem to have.
it is almost like they think they are better than us,i must stress this is not all of em but you do come across a lot like it.
maybe hstdriver can enlighten us why there seems to be this attitude towards us? afterall we are all 1 big family now

maybe its the way that west crews are left alone by fgw crew management. maybe its the way that some of the west crew walk around like they have wrapped themselves in gaffa tape and rolled around in a dust bath. maybe its the way that some of your west colleagues want the same money as hss crew but dont want to work a train with 500+ people on it to London and all the grief that entails.

maybe those are some of the reasons why

not strictly true,yes they do want same money but majority also want to work hss but refuse to until harmonised.
on the other hand will hss crews want to work local trains say down the beach?i think not.
in my opinion going to london is less grief,limited stops,mainly green signals and rarely check tickets so it is swings and roundabouts.
the remark about gaffa tape and dust baths is only applicable to a small minority of which some hss crews are the same.
it is basically a case of hss think they are better than us.

your ignorance on what its like to work hss services says it all to be honest. going to london is less grief? limited stops? mainly green signals? and rarely checking tickets? not sure what services you have been on. you havent been on the morning or evening hereford services then? you havent been on a HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) service on the b & h stopping at theale and thatcham trying to work SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening), load bicycles etc etc and maintain correct departure time.

the fact of the matter is - some west crews ignore hss, some hss crews ignore west - west crews have their own issues and hss crews have their own.

I've worked both HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s and units and the work load is no different, swings and roundabouts, how often do you have to get out and work ground frames? Going to London IS grief, but so is turning away passengers at EVERY station between Westbury and Bristol, trying to stand up on 142's, yes, a TM^‡(resolve) can take ^1000 in a shift, but thats probably only selling a handfull of high fares, try taking ^1500 in ^1.50 child fares, when you get through 2 whole ticket rolls (about 300 return tickets or 600 singles!), also when gangs of CHAVS literally hijack your train on the branches. Swings and roundabouts, the Train Manager name is misleading because it's a non-management grade and according to the rule book it's GUARD, funny, EXACTLY the same role/rule book as a "conductor".

[Tickets Please]

Think it might be a good idea not to start WW3!

dont get me wrong i am not trying to start ww3 i am just expressing my view about the us and them attitude the hst crews seem to have.
it is almost like they think they are better than us,i must stress this is not all of em but you do come across a lot like it.
maybe hstdriver can enlighten us why there seems to be this attitude towards us? afterall we are all 1 big family now

maybe its the way that west crews are left alone by fgw crew management. maybe its the way that some of the west crew walk around like they have wrapped themselves in gaffa tape and rolled around in a dust bath. maybe its the way that some of your west colleagues want the same money as hss crew but dont want to work a train with 500+ people on it to London and all the grief that entails.

maybe those are some of the reasons why

not strictly true,yes they do want same money but majority also want to work hss but refuse to until harmonised.
on the other hand will hss crews want to work local trains say down the beach?i think not.
in my opinion going to london is less grief,limited stops,mainly green signals and rarely check tickets so it is swings and roundabouts.
the remark about gaffa tape and dust baths is only applicable to a small minority of which some hss crews are the same.
it is basically a case of hss think they are better than us.

your ignorance on what its like to work hss services says it all to be honest. going to london is less grief? limited stops? mainly green signals? and rarely checking tickets? not sure what services you have been on. you havent been on the morning or evening hereford services then? you havent been on a HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) service on the b & h stopping at theale and thatcham trying to work SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening), load bicycles etc etc and maintain correct departure time.

the fact of the matter is - some west crews ignore hss, some hss crews ignore west - west crews have their own issues and hss crews have their own.

I've worked both HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s and units and the work load is no different, swings and roundabouts, how often do you have to get out and work ground frames? Going to London IS grief, but so is turning away passengers at EVERY station between Westbury and Bristol, trying to stand up on 142's, yes, a TM^‡(resolve) can take ^1000 in a shift, but thats probably only selling a handfull of high fares, try taking ^1500 in ^1.50 child fares, when you get through 2 whole ticket rolls (about 300 return tickets or 600 singles!), also when gangs of CHAVS literally hijack your train on the branches. Swings and roundabouts, the Train Manager name is misleading because it's a non-management grade and according to the rule book it's GUARD, funny, EXACTLY the same role/rule book as a "conductor".

see this is what annoys me about posting like yours vacman - you have NEVER sold 300 returns on-train on one diagram, ever and I would bet a years salary on that. why do you totally exagerate things like that and expect people like me to put any validity on all the other stuff you talk about. hss have chavs, hss are full and standing and yes I know that hss tm's have to turn people away or delay trains because of passanger loadings. hss guards arnt saying that unit work is easy, it has its own challanges but why do you want more money for doing the same work as you are doing now?

[vacman]

Think it might be a good idea not to start WW3!

dont get me wrong i am not trying to start ww3 i am just expressing my view about the us and them attitude the hst crews seem to have.
it is almost like they think they are better than us,i must stress this is not all of em but you do come across a lot like it.
maybe hstdriver can enlighten us why there seems to be this attitude towards us? afterall we are all 1 big family now

maybe its the way that west crews are left alone by fgw crew management. maybe its the way that some of the west crew walk around like they have wrapped themselves in gaffa tape and rolled around in a dust bath. maybe its the way that some of your west colleagues want the same money as hss crew but dont want to work a train with 500+ people on it to London and all the grief that entails.

maybe those are some of the reasons why

not strictly true,yes they do want same money but majority also want to work hss but refuse to until harmonised.
on the other hand will hss crews want to work local trains say down the beach?i think not.
in my opinion going to london is less grief,limited stops,mainly green signals and rarely check tickets so it is swings and roundabouts.
the remark about gaffa tape and dust baths is only applicable to a small minority of which some hss crews are the same.
it is basically a case of hss think they are better than us.

your ignorance on what its like to work hss services says it all to be honest. going to london is less grief? limited stops? mainly green signals? and rarely checking tickets? not sure what services you have been on. you havent been on the morning or evening hereford services then? you havent been on a HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) service on the b & h stopping at theale and thatcham trying to work SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening), load bicycles etc etc and maintain correct departure time.

the fact of the matter is - some west crews ignore hss, some hss crews ignore west - west crews have their own issues and hss crews have their own.

I've worked both HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s and units and the work load is no different, swings and roundabouts, how often do you have to get out and work ground frames? Going to London IS grief, but so is turning away passengers at EVERY station between Westbury and Bristol, trying to stand up on 142's, yes, a TM^‡(resolve) can take ^1000 in a shift, but thats probably only selling a handfull of high fares, try taking ^1500 in ^1.50 child fares, when you get through 2 whole ticket rolls (about 300 return tickets or 600 singles!), also when gangs of CHAVS literally hijack your train on the branches. Swings and roundabouts, the Train Manager name is misleading because it's a non-management grade and according to the rule book it's GUARD, funny, EXACTLY the same role/rule book as a "conductor".

see this is what annoys me about posting like yours vacman - you have NEVER sold 300 returns on-train on one diagram, ever and I would bet a years salary on that. why do you totally exagerate things like that and expect people like me to put any validity on all the other stuff you talk about. hss have chavs, hss are full and standing and yes I know that hss tm's have to turn people away or delay trains because of passanger loadings. hss guards arnt saying that unit work is easy, it has its own challanges but why do you want more money for doing the same work as you are doing now?

Firstly, I HAVE sold over 300 tickets in one shift, it's not that unusual to do that on a saturday on some branch lines! So thats ^25k you owe me
Our point is that west conductors (and LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley)) should be harmonised, why should they do the same job for ^4k per year less?? If that means conductors working HST's then fair enough, if that means TM's working unit's then so be it, when it finally happens it will also see a vast reduction in trains cancelled "due to train crew unavailiabilty" as i've often seen HSS crews sat spare when a West crew have gone sick and the unit has to be cancelled! same goes for drivers!

[Ollie]

Below is from the new FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Job Site (www.rewardingjournety.co.uk) just a snippet of what it says for Train Manager:

The key link between on-train staff and Crew Managers at the depot, you will take responsibility for the safety of the train, its crew and passengers, delivering the highest standards of customer service and safety. Managing a small team of Customer Hosts (usually 2 per train), you will ensure that they have the skills and competencies needed to deliver the very best customer service. Which means identifying training, coaching and development needs where necessary.


So clearly they do manage...it is part of their job.

[vacman]

Below is from the new FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Job Site (www.rewardingjournety.co.uk) just a snippet of what it says for Train Manager:

The key link between on-train staff and Crew Managers at the depot, you will take responsibility for the safety of the train, its crew and passengers, delivering the highest standards of customer service and safety. Managing a small team of Customer Hosts (usually 2 per train), you will ensure that they have the skills and competencies needed to deliver the very best customer service. Which means identifying training, coaching and development needs where necessary.


So clearly they do manage...it is part of their job.

Maybe so, but it's not an actual management grade! and in Cornwall you never see more than 1 customer host, usually none!

[jester]

So sorry to shoot you down 'I love trains' but I too have been in the position of selling well over 300 tickets just like Vacman, in one diagram as you put it, branch lines on saturdays are the bane of our local lives. And even then i did'nt finish issuing to the whole train which was wedged and i still carried out my full duties, which includes collecting revenue!

[grahame]

Think we got a steer from Graham on the tone of this discussion?

look, life isnt all happy clappy lets love one another - so threads of on here arnt always going to be harmonious and lovey dovey.

its called being entitled to ones opinion. nothing is being said in a rude or offensive manner, if you dont want to read the thread then dont open it up in your browser

Yes indeed - my "steer" was as follows ...

Let's discuss them by all means, but let's not turn it into a competition where everyone tries to come up with winners and loosers; ALL roles / services are vital and there simply is no competition!

Whilst I DO see a point in comparing and contrasting, I really don't see much of a point in raising the temperature, which will cause it to tend to get personal - posters being accused of exaduration, then worse ... so I stepped in to nip it in the bud.  But I am NOT asking for a love-in!  "Perfectly reasonable" approach confirms Lee.   And you'll find the rest of the moderator team in step too. So please do stick with the minimal guidleines that are set down and not make life difficult for them and me!

I would also like to make a specific comment on ilovertrain's comment "if you dont want to read the thread then dont open it up in your browser".  Quite apart from the fact that I can't possibly know what a thread contains until I open it, you are WRONG in my case. As the adminstrator of the board, it is my duty to open, read and review threads which I have any reason to believe may break the guidelines that we lay down, or the law.  And if someone brings a particular post or thread to my attention (as has happened in this case) then that does give me such reason.

If I find (or suspect) that a post is against the guidelines or the law, then I have a number of sanctions available too me.  I'm delighted to say that only very rarely indeed do I have to use any of them, and would like to thank you all in anticipation of you keeping this thread WITHIN THE GUIDLINES from here on in so that I don't have to use any here either.   Thanks!

[Jim]

yawn.....try working the hereford with selective door opening.
try managing staff who dont want to do any work,
try selling thousands of pounds of tickets in a day and not even getting any personal commision. hmmm makes you wonder why none of the west conductors want to apply for hss tm vacancies if hss tm's have it so easy. maybe they want to carry on working units up the beach line and get more money for doing no more work or taking on no more responsibility.

Ok, heres my real 50pence worth:

SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening), whats so hard, all you got to do is walk to the correct panel, Local have to walk to panels sometimes as well you know.
Staff that don't want to work - let them and report them if it stresses you out that much.
The difference between your average money per ticket and local's is probabally huge! IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly), local don't get commsion anyway.

I have been on the 17.33 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-PGN at least 5 times, from Westbury. This service goes all stations after Castle Cary, and I have never been checked on it
I have been on the 19.53 EXD^» (Exeter St Davids - next trains)-PAD at least 5 times, to Westbury. I have been checked on it once.

I have been on the 19.08 Westbury - Trowbridge at least 12 times, and been checked at least 8 times.
I have been on the 23.10 BRistol - Westbury at least 5 times, and been checked on it at least 4 times.


Take the old 06.00 Salisbury - Cardiff Central, more often than not, the guard would only sit down between Wilton and Warminster, the rest of the time they would be checking/running the train.