|
johoare
|
 |
« on: June 11, 2010, 21:49:52 » |
|
I'm putting this in London to Reading as it affects me and that is my journey... If it becomes apparent other people further afield are also affected then I can move it.. Three times this week (our of six journeys I made) I had an "air conditioned unit" and it was uncomfortably warm.. So I thought maybe a record of such journeys would show how bad it was.. I'll start with Thursday since due to a lack of trains I didn't get to work Wednesday and really can't remember earlier in the week  Thursday morning was an air con sealed unit all windows closed.. It wasn't that warm outside.. It was VERY warm inside.. The man next to me had to keep wiping his head with tissues..etc etc.. (Thu evening was intercity so not relevant to this topic) Friday morning was the same as Thursday morning except I'd driven to the station, done no excercise so had no external forces heating me up except the train.. It wasn't warm outside the train, the sun wasn't out, so no excuse for being so warm inside it..but it was.. Friday evening.. An even hotter air conditioned train.. Standing very very still made no difference.. When the door was open at Paddington it cooled it enough to tolerate (I was standing next to the door). Once the door shut and we started moving it became really hot..I'd given a pint of blood today so probably didn't really need to be heated up.. I do wonder if this will ever be sorted out. I doubt it.. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
willc
|
|
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2010, 22:14:58 » |
|
Jo, I did post the following in the Turbo refresh thread last month, so there may be some hope. However, the 166s are at the back of the queue for refresh work - due to the air con issue - so may be a 2012 before all 166 journeys in the summer are more bearable. Some good news at the CLPG» AGM▸ today - that efforts to improve the 166 air conditioning system look to be much more thorough than had been expected. After discussions with Angel Trains - the leasing firm - a set is expected to be sent in the summer to Doncaster (Wabtec presumably), for a trial fit of an improved system, which, if successful, will be supplied in kit form to Reading depot to be fitted as the 166s are refreshed. The first 166 set is due to be tackled at the end of this year. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
onthecushions
|
|
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2010, 16:35:17 » |
|
There are two ways that an air-conditioned carriage can overheat:
1. By solar and occupancy (lights and people) heat gains in a poorly ventilated (through lack of air, or lack of cool air) enclosure.
2. By reverse operation of the system - they are usually heat pumps that can have either the cold or hot end of the refrigeration plant in the carriage. This could be caused either by an electrical fault preventing change-over or by an unobservant (or malicious) member of staff leaving the setting wrong.
It is absurd to delay a unit upgrade because it has a/c. The plant and its remedy are trivial compared to everything else.
OTC
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
devon_metro
|
|
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2010, 17:34:13 » |
|
Would it be unreasonable to install some fans (like on the Underground) to at least have some flowing air in the event of a/c failure.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
inspector_blakey
|
|
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2010, 18:44:13 » |
|
They're called opening hopper windows  Remarkably effective at 90 mph. Especially in the winter on the 165 fleet when they won't stay shut due to the asinine latch design  |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: June 15, 2010, 19:00:24 by inspector_blakey »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
willc
|
|
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2010, 23:54:39 » |
|
It is absurd to delay a unit upgrade because it has a/c. The plant and its remedy are trivial compared to everything else. Not sure it is trivial at all. The 166 was a cut-price effort to create a train more suited to semi-fast work, especially Oxford and the Cotswold Line, out of the basic 165 design. Unlike the class 158, which was designed from the off to have air conditioning, the 166 system was a compromise job, fitted in as best they could, so was always less than ideal. If Wabtec at Doncaster come up with a revised a/c system that actually works, I, for one, will endure another overheated summer (or two). After 17 years in service, it's high time this problem was sorted out. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
onthecushions
|
|
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2010, 23:12:05 » |
|
Surely the need to maintain 63 class 166 vehicles justifies the training up of at least one fitter-technician in the dark art of air-conditioning?
Even if the refrigeration compressor has tripped out, the fans (supply and extract) can be kept running - this at least limits temperature excesses in the car. Do drivers know how best to operate these systems?
Traditional LUL▸ cars have roof mounted extract fans - it is now realised that they should blow rather than suck. LUL have been learning and new tube cars (as well as surface stock) will have a/c - but with the compressors off in tunnels, to avoid adding to overheating.
Stop the excuses,
OTC
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
paul7575
|
|
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2010, 23:43:23 » |
|
Traditional LUL▸ cars have roof mounted extract fans - it is now realised that they should blow rather than suck. LUL have been learning and new tube cars (as well as surface stock) will have a/c - but with the compressors off in tunnels, to avoid adding to overheating.
The next 'tube' stock to be ordered presumably, as the Victoria Line 09 stock is forced air only. Paul |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
super tm
|
|
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2010, 08:47:15 » |
|
Traditional LUL▸ cars have roof mounted extract fans - it is now realised that they should blow rather than suck. LUL have been learning and new tube cars (as well as surface stock) will have a/c - but with the compressors off in tunnels, to avoid adding to overheating.
The next 'tube' stock to be ordered presumably, as the Victoria Line 09 stock is forced air only. Paul Only the sub surface lines will have ac. On the other lines there is simply no where for the hot air to go in the tunnel so ac is not possible. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
willc
|
|
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2010, 11:18:55 » |
|
Surely the need to maintain 63 class 166 vehicles justifies the training up of at least one fitter-technician in the dark art of air-conditioning?
Even if the refrigeration compressor has tripped out, the fans (supply and extract) can be kept running - this at least limits temperature excesses in the car. Do drivers know how best to operate these systems? The Reading technicians do their best, the train crews do their best, but if you have a half-baked air con system to start with, on trains used on DOO▸ routes - so you can't lock the emergency hopper windows - then all it takes is one person to come along and open a window, even when the temperature in the coach is spot on. This unleashes a howling gale and the system thinks 'it's got awfully cold, I must heat things up'. It gets hotter, more windows get opened and it goes into meltdown. If things were as simple as you suggest, do you think FGW▸ and Angel Trains would be sending a set to Doncaster so Wabtec can crawl all over it and try to work out a way to fit something better? And so long as those hopper windows remain, someone is always going to insist on opening them, no matter how many 'emergency ventilation only' stickers you slap on them. I've already lost count of the number of times I've had to tell people not to open them this summer and we're not even into July or August yet. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
hornbeam
|
|
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2010, 14:10:34 » |
|
Willic,
I do agrre with you. However, when new the windows could be locked- unlike now and also some just dont stay shut. Its a shame that simple maintance is not done as it should be, but thats a knock at the fitters who have there work cut out keeping the fleet going.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
paul7575
|
|
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2010, 19:11:25 » |
|
Traditional LUL▸ cars have roof mounted extract fans - it is now realised that they should blow rather than suck. LUL have been learning and new tube cars (as well as surface stock) will have a/c - but with the compressors off in tunnels, to avoid adding to overheating.
The next 'tube' stock to be ordered presumably, as the Victoria Line 09 stock is forced air only. Paul Only the sub surface lines will have ac. On the other lines there is simply no where for the hot air to go in the tunnel so ac is not possible. I must admit that's what I thought as well - just trying to be gentle with my criticism... Paul |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
onthecushions
|
|
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2010, 13:56:56 » |
|
[/quote]
Only the sub surface lines will have ac. On the other lines there is simply no where for the hot air to go in the tunnel so ac is not possible.
[/quote]
LUL▸ have a system for air conditioning tube trains (i.e the ones in the small dia, deep tunnels).
The compressors will be off in the tunnels, so no condenser heat will be emitted.
The appliance of Science,
OTC
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
paul7575
|
|
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2010, 18:08:32 » |
|
LUL▸ have a system for air conditioning tube trains (i.e the ones in the small dia, deep tunnels).
The compressors will be off in the tunnels, so no condenser heat will be emitted.
The appliance of Science,
OTC
I think you are talking about an idea that has been proposed. It doesn't exist yet, and until it is specified for a new fleet, it remains theoretical... Paul |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
