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Author Topic: overcrowding! time to stop moaning about it.. and to bring health and safety!  (Read 14638 times)
Btline
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« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2009, 21:01:52 »

Indeed Britain could still be Great. It's not just Health & Safety, Human Rights but common sense. Read on:

"Common Sense

Today, we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth
records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will
be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as:

   Knowing when to come in out of the rain;             
   Why the early bird gets the worm;
Life isn't always fair;
   and maybe it was my fault.

Common Sense, lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children, are in charge).

His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired
for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.

Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer sun lotion or an Aspirin to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion!!!!!?Huh

Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims.

Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.

Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.

Common Sense was preceded in death, by his parents, Truth and Trust.  His wife, Discretion.  His daughter, Responsibility. His son, Reason.

He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers;

   I Know My Rights
   I Want It Now
   Someone Else Is To Blame
   I'm A Victim

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone. If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the majority and do nothing."

Excellent.
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plejaren
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« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2009, 22:24:02 »

thanks for all the replies
another thing i hate is how theres no priority whatsoever
so say ive spent 60 on a ticket from birmingham to southampton...
and a person whos spent 4 pounds on a 20 minute journey to coventry pushes ahead of me when the train pulls up.. he gets a seat and i have to stand

Sad Sad
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devon_metro
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« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2009, 15:06:18 »

thanks for all the replies
another thing i hate is how theres no priority whatsoever
so say ive spent 60 on a ticket from birmingham to southampton...
and a person whos spent 4 pounds on a 20 minute journey to coventry pushes ahead of me when the train pulls up.. he gets a seat and i have to stand

Sad Sad

Hahaha, sorry the irony of this is, another thread talks about the benefits of first come first serve (by eradicating reservations)

Thanks for pointing out why it is a silly idea.
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Tim
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« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2009, 15:57:35 »

We need to do something about overcrowding and passengers are right to get angy about it and hassle the TOCs (Train Operating Company)/Government/MPs (Member of Parliament) etc

BUT

Please please please can we not try and make this a Health and Safety issue.  Firstly- there is no evidence that overcrowded trains are dangerous as opposed to uncomfortable (if you want to disagree with this then you will need to cite some evidence) and Secondly, we all know what will happen if it becomes a H&S (Health and Safety) issue - the TOCs can't magic extra traisn from thin air nor the money to pay for them so all they will do is make trains reversation only or continue their policy of pricing people off. 
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stebbo
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« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2009, 21:20:27 »

My eldest dughter often reserves a seat to travel from Cheltenham to Newcastle and almost as often can't get to her seat until after Birmingham, so reservatins don't always work.
And how many seat reservations do you see where the seat holder never turns up?
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plejaren
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« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2009, 19:19:06 »

i hate to be a doomsday monger

i know there have been a couple of incidents of people fainting

but it is going to take that one big incident
such as a major crash
or a mini hillsborough type disaster

for something to be done about it

untill then, sadly train operating companies dont care

all they care about is
running minimal carriages
minimal staff
minimal ticket office hours
maximum passengers
maximum fare increases


which all contribute to
more savings and money to them

and little consideration for the people who pay their mortgages
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devon_metro
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« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2009, 19:27:56 »

Isn't all business cut-throat? (even though the railways should be public service, the government seems to think they should pay their way)
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inspector_blakey
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« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2009, 21:09:11 »

The health and safety implications of overcrowding on trains were the subject of an extensive piece of work by the Rail Safety and Standards Board a few years ago.

This thorough research concluded that overcrowding was an issue of comfort rather than safety. I would humbly suggest that it might be worth looking at this document if you want to know more about the implications of overcrowding.


http://www.rssb.co.uk/pdf/reports/research/T307%20Health%20and%20safety%20effects%20of%20crowding.pdf
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plejaren
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« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2009, 21:24:41 »

with all due respect though.....

surely overcrowding now is far far more an issue than even a few years ago
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2009, 22:00:12 »

Hmm. I think there are two aspects to that, plejaren.

Yes, there are clearly more people travelling on trains now than there were a few years ago - but with the refurbishment (and I'm posting this with particular reference to the FGW (First Great Western) area), there are many more seats and more effective use of the standing space available?

And all these new seats, windows and safety equipment have also been upgraded, to modern safety standards - so, on balance, I'd say this would probably lead to the same conclusions being reached now?
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
thetrout
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« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2009, 22:23:30 »

I think some, if not most, overcrowding is related to whether the train infront actually runs.

I travel home from my Parents most Sundays on FGW (First Great Western) and XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)). Generally I don't have any problems with overcrowding, unless XC do something stupid at Bristol like cancel the service thats an hour ahead of mine or terminate it at Bristol. Then all the pax are loaded onto the train I get. Then 8 Carriages of pax are loaded into a 4 Carriage train. The results:

All remaining First Class seats are occupied
Access to the shop is impossible
Nasty looks from fellow pax when you attempt to access the toilet because they have to move
The seat you just vacated to go and use the toilet is promptly stolen from you
Upon return from the toilet an arguement commences over the stolen seat... Roll Eyes Tongue
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Grin Grin Grin Grin
Btline
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« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2009, 22:27:35 »

I think some, if not most, overcrowding is related to whether the train infront actually runs.

I travel home from my Parents most Sundays on FGW (First Great Western) and XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)). Generally I don't have any problems with overcrowding, unless XC do something stupid at Bristol like cancel the service thats an hour ahead of mine or terminate it at Bristol. Then all the pax are loaded onto the train I get. Then 8 Carriages of pax are loaded into a 4 Carriage train. The results:

All remaining First Class seats are occupied
Access to the shop is impossible
Nasty looks from fellow pax when you attempt to access the toilet because they have to move
The seat you just vacated to go and use the toilet is promptly stolen from you
Upon return from the toilet an arguement commences over the stolen seat... Roll Eyes Tongue

Don't you mean 16 carriages loaded into a 4 carriage train? Roll Eyes Grin
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plejaren
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« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2009, 22:28:18 »

by the way
somebody please tell me that these famous train crowding in japan clip is a joke?

i do not believe this is real....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwbPdF5dIgQ

replies please?
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inspector_blakey
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« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2009, 23:08:22 »

The age of the RSSB (Rail Safety and Standards Board) report (which was published in 2005) is irrelevant; it considers the issues surrounding overcrowding on a given train. These are exactly the same now as they were then. Given that I am a scientist by training and trade I'm afraid I give a great deal more credence to a properly conducted and referenced piece of research such as this than to anecdotal tabloid press stories about people fainting.

The stories about Japanese railways are absolutely true (and the Japanese railways do indeed employ staff as "pushers" to squeeze more people in).

Remember that this occurs in a nation whose railways are frequently held up as an example for the rest of the world to follow. Rather puts our British definition of "over crowding" into context.
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plejaren
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« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2009, 23:10:59 »

well then if that video is real that is disgusting
that is conditions which even cattle wouldnt be put in on the way to a slaughterhouse!!

i am disgusted if thats how they treat people in japan

human rights anyone?!!!!
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