Bring Back British Rail Campaign

[whole diary]

[signalandtelegraph]

For those interested

http://www.bringbackbritishrail.org/

 

[DevonTrains2008]

BBBR! Good Luck With The Campaign - I hope and pray BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) will return some day!

[inspector_blakey]

Yawn.

Dream on.

[RailCornwall]

Dinosaurs. More chance of another Beeching than BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) reappearing.

Edit ....
I'd actually prefer the Beeching alternative of the two.

[signalandtelegraph]

Dinosaurs. More chance of another Beeching than BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) reappearing.

Edit ....
I'd actually prefer the Beeching alternative of the two.

The edit seems a rather bizarre comment to make, care to expand?

[Electric train]

Dinosaurs. More chance of another Beeching than BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) reappearing.

Edit ....
I'd actually prefer the Beeching alternative of the two.

The edit seems a rather bizarre comment to make, care to expand?

I agree especially as under Beeching there would be not railways in Cornwall

[RailCornwall]

Quite simply I do not believe there is a case, on several grounds ...

1. Establishing a single company puts it at risk of coordinated inductrial action.

2. The inevitable claim is for a new Nationalised BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)). The debt of the rail industry cannot be allowed to return to the Exchequer. It would also be at the whim of successive Governments without proper recourse to the industry or it's users.

I'd prefer the current system tweaked, but stand by my point that given the choice of a much reduced private network or a BR system the former it has to be, even if it meant cutting the Network back to Plymouth or even Exeter.

[Tim]

It is not going to happen, but on balance I would like BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) back.

Even if you are no fan of BR, remember that even adjusting for inflation, the current structure costs the taxpayer THREE TIMES what BR did and the fare payer pays more too.  Are you really telling me that what we have now is three times better than under BR?

BR may not have been better but it did provide better value for the country.  If we had kept BR and trippled its budget do you think we would still be just talking about electrification for example?  Do you think that Melksham would have no daylight trains?  Do you think that we would have tickets on sale for ^1002?  Do you think that we would have had Ladbroke Grove?  Do you think we would have the Vommiter?  Would getting on HALF A BILLION POUNDS have been wasted on franchise bids and stock repaints?  Even some of the good things about the current network (saver tickets, Railcards, allline rovers) are BR products reluctantly retained.

They took what was ours and sold it off to a load a crooks (who had already damaged the bus industry so they ought to have seen it coming) at a knock-down price.  This makes me angry.  It also makes me angry that many of the same crooks are still making proffit by screwing the customer and tax payer.  For that reason alone I'd like BR back.   

And RailCornwall fails to realise that Network Rails HUGE debt is already the responsibility of the Exchequer.  The current Government may be using Enron-style accounting to keep it off the books on a technicality, but it will need to be paid off eventually by the taxpayer. 

[RailCornwall]

I'm fully aware of Network Rail's status. It's pre-packaged for disposal.

[Tim]

I'm fully aware of Network Rail's status. It's pre-packaged for disposal.

yes, but who will pay its debts. 

Either:  dispose of it to the private sector with debts written off (ie payed by tax payer) first or discpose of it to the private sector along with its debts and along with granting it the power to raise money to cancel its debts through higher track-assess charges which will be paid for by the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) who will be compensated by the taxpayer through more generous franchise terms.  Either way the tax payer pays.  Just because we will pay in a disguised way doesn't mean we won't pay. 

[Electric train]

I'm fully aware of Network Rail's status. It's pre-packaged for disposal.

Not quite by the end of CP4^▸ (Control Period 4 - the five year period between 2009 and 2014) it will have a debt of ^34B due to it borrowings, also I doubt the 100 Network Rail share holders would agree to the take over.  Yes NR^» (Network Rail - home page) does have share holders all paid ^1 which is limited by guarantee.  NR is a political animal (politics with a small p) unlike any other it is neither state nor privately owned and will use a lot tactics to protect its belief that it is the best model for the future of the rail network in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)

[DevonTrains2008]

Quite simply I do not believe there is a case, on several grounds ...

1. Establishing a single company puts it at risk of coordinated inductrial action.

2. The inevitable claim is for a new Nationalised BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)). The debt of the rail industry cannot be allowed to return to the Exchequer. It would also be at the whim of successive Governments without proper recourse to the industry or it's users.

I'd prefer the current system tweaked, but stand by my point that given the choice of a much reduced private network or a BR system the former it has to be, even if it meant cutting the Network back to Plymouth or even Exeter.

I cannot believe you are saying this!

Imagine the damage another Beeching would do! He would probably cut off Cornwall and Wales beyond Swansea - no one wants that!

And cutting off Plymouth - I mean what the **** are you on! It's the biggest city in the South West and growing - it needs investment not to be cut off!

Everyone would be going everywhere on buses that triple journey times or clogging up the regions already full roads!

Call your self rail cornwall aswell! more like destroy rail cornwall!

Apologies - rant over!

BBBR 

PS - also forgot to mention the economic (e.g tourism/day trips etc. and business losses that would be made!)

[DevonTrains2008]

It is not going to happen, but on balance I would like BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) back.

Even if you are no fan of BR, remember that even adjusting for inflation, the current structure costs the taxpayer THREE TIMES what BR did and the fare payer pays more too.  Are you really telling me that what we have now is three times better than under BR?

BR may not have been better but it did provide better value for the country.  If we had kept BR and trippled its budget do you think we would still be just talking about electrification for example?  Do you think that Melksham would have no daylight trains?  Do you think that we would have tickets on sale for ^1002?  Do you think that we would have had Ladbroke Grove?  Do you think we would have the Vommiter?  Would getting on HALF A BILLION POUNDS have been wasted on franchise bids and stock repaints?  Even some of the good things about the current network (saver tickets, Railcards, allline rovers) are BR products reluctantly retained.

They took what was ours and sold it off to a load a crooks (who had already damaged the bus industry so they ought to have seen it coming) at a knock-down price.  This makes me angry.  It also makes me angry that many of the same crooks are still making proffit by screwing the customer and tax payer.  For that reason alone I'd like BR back.   

And RailCornwall fails to realise that Network Rails HUGE debt is already the responsibility of the Exchequer.  The current Government may be using Enron-style accounting to keep it off the books on a technicality, but it will need to be paid off eventually by the taxpayer. 

P.S -well said!

[onthecushions]

I would like BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) back as a single, strategic enterprise running the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) railways and supporting those private individuals and Companies who choose to contribute to the Nation's rail service.

I don't want a BR that is Civil Service Dept, (like before), ordered to do rail badly or even to do it down.

It should be a blue-chip, chartered company, dedicated to rail transport, with share/bond holders but without ownership concentrated or abroad. It should have the choice of in-house or out-sourcing for maintenance and operation depending on price and quality, reporting openly on ROCE (return on capital employed). It should contract with HMG for capital and investment and probably get its support from a passenger-mile and tonne-mile subsidy.

I think we would then get InterCity and NSE^▸ (Network South East)/Overground back with the better TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s having service delivery contracts within national marketing templates. The TOC's should not have to bear investment risk, requiring long-term contracts.

Dreaming.....

OTC