Brighton-Bath: National Rail offering wrong ticket

[whole diary]

[Trowres]

Here's the scenario:
Ask the National Rail journey planner for Brighton-Bath after 08:00, with a return after 14:00.
NRJP returns (amongst other offerings) the 08:59 Brighton through service via Salisbury at the Super-Off-Peak Return of £77.50 (any permitted route)

Go to advanced search, put in "via Dean" (or Chichester, Salisbury, Avoncliff... probably others) and the JP offers an Off-Peak Return of £61.00 (via Salisbury) for the same train.

Same happens for Brighton-Bristol Temple Meads. Bug doesn't appear in GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)'s ticket sales website.

What might be the cause of this anomaly and does it appear for services elsewhere?

[ChrisB]

The return services offered on the higher fare all seem to be via London (presumably as they are faster?) whereas forcing a ‘via Dean’ means that the return has to go that way too, making for a slower journey.

The onemajor problem withthst planner - always looking for faster, easier journeys. The outward is owing to thd train being direct with no changes/cross London necessity, whereas there is no direct train back around 1400

[stuving]

The return services offered on the higher fare all seem to be via London (presumably as they are faster?) whereas forcing a ‘via Dean’ means that the return has to go that way too, making for a slower journey.

The onemajor problem withthst planner - always looking for faster, easier journeys. The outward is owing to thd train being direct with no changes/cross London necessity, whereas there is no direct train back around 1400

Exactly. There is a box for you to select "Show only fastest trains", but it does seem to do that anyway. Hence it would be more useful if you could ask for something like "Always include cheapest options even if slower".

I asked NRE^‡(resolve) about the same issue for another journey, and got a very quick reply containing (among some non-answers): "I would like to inform you that the functionality of our Journey Planner is to display the fastest route for any journey planned.".

I had a follow-up about that option box, asking what the point of it is, but it wasn't answered. Presumably you can't reply to their e-mail, but have to go back to the enquiry page on their site.

[infoman]

going back a little while,we were going to make a trip to Brighton from Bristol

put in route and came up with

1)BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) to london to three bridges and coach three bridges to Brighton

2)and BTM to three bridges by train changing at Reading and coach three bridges to brighton

I thought should we try the coastal route?

BTM to fareham and change at fareham to brighton both sections by train

and they say we try and keep you away from coach replacements

as a by line we were at a station somewhere between fareham and brighton on said day

Guard said we will be delayed due to faster train needing to go by us,

but if you wanna get out here and you heading for brighton it runs non stop to brighton

every one got off and caught  the "rocket" 

Thank you Guard,who ever you are

[Oxonhutch]

Truly, there is a guard.

[Trowres]

Thanks for the explanations given above. I should have spotted that myself!

Shame the journey planner doesn't tell you that there's a cheaper option if you adjust the route or time of return travel. Maybe more people would have used the route via Salisbury.

[stuving]

Thanks for the explanations given above. I should have spotted that myself!

Shame the journey planner doesn't tell you that there's a cheaper option if you adjust the route or time of return travel. Maybe more people would have used the route via Salisbury.

I suggest you complain on the NRE^‡(resolve) web site - if they get enough it might have some effect. This is the main part my follow-up message (which probably never arrived):

Thank you for such a very prompt reply. What you say about the OJP^▸ (Online Journey Planner) always showing "fastest trains only" matches what I have seen in the past. But in that case why do you offer a tick box to choose ... exactly the same thing? Do you really expect users to understand that? Of course they will infer that the OJP normally does not suppress overtaken trains, so this box is very misleading.

But that is not 100% true of what I am seeing now - some overtaken (direct) trains are listed. They are only overtaken by a few minutes, so there may be a small tolerance allowed. The "faster trains only" option does remove those. What has changed since earlier today I don't know.

And what is the allowed margin for "slower" trains to be listed? I can't find any information on that. If it's only a few minutes, it does not prevent that option box being misleading. What I did find is this, claimed for your OJP:
"...the latest release of the Journey Planner allows users to: Find the cheapest fare (direct from A to B) over a range of dates, across different operators." I don't think that claim can be justified, given the way slightly slower trains are being suppressed.

[Surrey 455]

National Rail Enquiries do have a cheapest fare finder

https://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/farefinder/search

I don't know how practical or accurate it is though. Might be worth playing around with it.

[Trowres]

Well, Surrey455, I decided to give it a go... and (this time) the cheapest fare finder did a good job, finding the "via Salisbury" fare and offering an interesting selection of trains and changing locations (in addition to the through services). My favourite was:

Bath-Wesbury-Clapham Jn-Haywards Heath-Brighton

I wonder how many times (between Clapham and Brighton) you would be challenged for using a "via Salisbury" ticket?

[Surrey 455]

Well, Surrey455, I decided to give it a go... and (this time) the cheapest fare finder did a good job, finding the "via Salisbury" fare and offering an interesting selection of trains and changing locations (in addition to the through services). My favourite was:

Bath-Wesbury-Clapham Jn-Haywards Heath-Brighton

I wonder how many times (between Clapham and Brighton) you would be challenged for using a "via Salisbury" ticket?

Probably none. I can't remember the last time anyone checked my ticket on that stretch.