Crossrail/Elizabeth Line. From construction to operation - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Reading General]

So were GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) looking to completely give up service of the relief line between Slough and London, dividing a through line in two? I can’t see TFL^▸ (Transport for London) sympathising with those passengers from outer london heading west. Would the Didcot relief line service not have continued to do what it does today, providing a half hourly option heading east from those stations?

The outer-suburban trains, the 2 per hour Paddington to Didcot (and later Oxford), would have continued to run as now. It is simply that Crossrail would have been terminated at Maidenhead and as a Reading - Maidenhead shuttle would have been difficult to arrange at Maidenhead and many of the Reading - Slough passengers would have had to have changed at Maidenhead it was published that Crossrail would go on to Reading.

The announcement was made after the rebuild of Reading station was completed to avoid any chance of Crossrail having to pay for any of the enhancements there. The other advantage of not running a shuttle was that the expense of a west-facing bay at Slough was avoided.

But as it turns out, with the current timetable of today, if passengers changed at Maidenhead because crossrail finished there, they would only face a wait of four minutes on the platform for a train towards Reading (general) that would have stopped at Slough en route. This also means that every other train off peak from Slough in the down direction on the relief line arrives at Reading (general), only four minutes behind the last. If fares change it potentially could be a two trains an hour service depending on which company you choose.
 You could argue that it is to keep four trains an hour through Twyford but with the trains timed so close together in the down direction from Maidenhead, it’s basically a two trains an hour service with a backup four minutes later.
 The new timetable would only work as a decent turn up and go arrangement if the GWR trains made the same stops as the crossrail trains.
 

[paul7575]

Now that just made me laugh. This is written by somebody who is definitely educated to a far higher standard than me but who clearly thinks that they need to do no research whatsoever. A new line opened? It’s two trains an hour off peak, travelling on a line which opened fully between the two points 179 years ago! The level of arrogance in this piece of journalism astounds me.

I think a highly qualified London journalist's world view probably depends on whether or not somewhere is on the tube map.  As Reading (and its railway) wasn't there last month it must have just been created... 

Paul

[stuving]

I was getting confused by the times taken by XR^▸ (Crossrail) and GW^▸ (Great Western) trains between RDG^‡(resolve) and PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains), so I though I'd extract all of them. That would have been a lot easier using RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website) with the old page format; the new one doesn't copy as a 2D table. However, I've found a clunky work-round, so here it is - the histogram. (Everyone loves a histogram, right? Even if it is just the numbers, not graphic.)

Figures are minutes from depart to arrive in the WTT^▸ (Working Time-Table) on 13/2/20, all XR services and all GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) ones defined by stopping at EAL^▸ (Ealing Broadway Station). I may have missed one that's running at 02:00, but otherwise it should be complete.

mins	XR in	GW in	XR out	GW out
46		2		0
47		2		8
48		3		9
49		2		4
50		1		1
51		0		1
52		5		1
53		6		1
54		1		4
55	27	1	1	1
56	6	0	1	0
57	5	6	1	1
58	4	3	35	0
59	4	1	6	0
60	1	0	2	0
61	0	1	1	1

Some of that is what I'd spotted before - TfL^» (Transport for London - about) being much more regular, and GWR having a bigger spread and being generally faster inbound. I hadn't twigged that the TfL services are so uniformly 3 minutes slower inboundoutbound*, which does seem odd.

* That's exactly what's odd - most trains, of all types, including the GWR relief Line services, have an extra timing allowance to get into Paddington relative to escaping. Why would TfL's ones be so different?

[Sixty3Closure]

I can't post a link as its a closed group but the Twyford Facebook group has just discovered the new trains.

A very negative reaction. As discussed here the topics being raised are lack of toilets, lack of tables and power sockets, lack of seats and the one's there are being uncomfortable. The other point being raised is how slow they are and basically everyone being told to use the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) services. There also seemed to be a few people confused by the new peak/off peak fare structure.

Not entirely unexpected and I can't see much change until there's through trains to central/east London.

[grahame]

I can't post a link as its a closed group but the Twyford Facebook group has just discovered the new trains.

Even if we can't go there ... they would be very welcome here.  Please post a link to us 

Any readers from Twyford (or Taplow or Truro or Torquay) very welcome to read, to sign up, to post.  Yesterday was the busiest day on the forum in a long while - but we still have space for more, and it doesn't cost a penny nor throw sponsored adverts at you either!

[TaplowGreen]

I can't post a link as its a closed group but the Twyford Facebook group has just discovered the new trains.

A very negative reaction. As discussed here the topics being raised are lack of toilets, lack of tables and power sockets, lack of seats and the one's there are being uncomfortable. The other point being raised is how slow they are and basically everyone being told to use the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) services. There also seemed to be a few people confused by the new peak/off peak fare structure.

Not entirely unexpected and I can't see much change until there's through trains to central/east London.

My own experience (to/from Taplow) with TfL^» (Transport for London - about) and its new trains has been very positive  - much more frequent service, no trouble getting a seat, and they're comfortable enough, plus a Sunday service for the first time in decades - to be honest if someone's biggest problem is lack of access to a power socket for 40 minutes they haven't really got too much to worry about - try reading a book...….or even having a conversation!!!

I guess people from Twyford are used to fast services to Paddington, unlike those of us in slower, but far superior areas! 

[IndustryInsider]

They could do with getting them from 7-cars to 9-cars ASAP as plenty of people can’t get a seat on trains they used to be able to, and that will help a little.

[TaplowGreen]

They could do with getting them from 7-cars to 9-cars ASAP as plenty of people can’t get a seat on trains they used to be able to, and that will help a little.

I've been catching them both ways in the rush hour, absolutely no problem getting a seat in the morning and as long as you're prepared to walk through the train in the evening you'll generally find a seat in my experience - certainly by the time it reaches Southall.

There's a lot more space of course so even if you are standing you're not in the nose in the armpit type Turbo/387 experience, and it's much easier to get on and off.

Early days of course.

[eightonedee]

Take a bow, TG - nice to see someone being positive about new rolling stock for a change!

I'm just waiting for someone to say they preferred locomotive hauled mark 1s or Pressed Steel 3 car units....

[IndustryInsider]

Well I’ve seen many a wedged Class 345 this week much further out than Southall.  Glad you’re having no problems on your trains, but I can assure you some are - there’s 100 or so less seats than on a 8-car 387 - and the extra two coaches (which were originally promised as part of this timetable until software hitches stopped it) will help and can’t come soon enough.

[Electric train]

Take a bow, TG - nice to see someone being positive about new rolling stock for a change!

I'm just waiting for someone to say they preferred locomotive hauled mark 1s or Pressed Steel 3 car units....

Well the comfort of the seats would be welcome, always thought that 387's and 800's the seats are as hard as church pews but the 345 seats are actually harder than a church pew

[TonyK]

Well the comfort of the seats would be welcome, always thought that 387's and 800's the seats are as hard as church pews but the 345 seats are actually harder than a church pew

Myself and Mrs FT, N (Vivienne or Viv to those who know her) were at St Andrews, Halberton, last night. The pews were fine.

[Marlburian]

Crossrail bosses are "very confident" the delayed project will open in 2021. They also confirmed that costs will not increase further because of delays. Early next year a new opening timetable will be announced.


Berkshire Live article

[IndustryInsider]

Well I’ve seen many a wedged Class 345 this week much further out than Southall.  Glad you’re having no problems on your trains, but I can assure you some are - there’s 100 or so less seats than on a 8-car 387 - and the extra two coaches (which were originally promised as part of this timetable until software hitches stopped it) will help and can’t come soon enough.

I should add that, other than every train being shortformed, the handover to TfL^» (Transport for London - about) Rail went pretty smoothly despite rumours that they were under prepared to take over.

[eightf48544]

My son who normally drives everywhere has  used trains just recently.

His comment was "Crossrail doesn't work to Reading".

One journey Raeding Padd 23 minutes, another Slough PAd 15 minutes.