Seven Year Old Girl Crushed On Overcrowded Train

[whole diary]

[devon_metro]

On the other hand, I may have completely misunderstood your point - in which case, sorry!   

Understood me perfectly well 

[John R]

Couple of observations. Firstly, the evening services are constrained in that they have to fit around the timings of the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) services (as well as the Weston single line). If the 1725 set off any later it would hold up the 1744 XC service by the time it got to Worle. So I think there are real difficulties in getting a more even pattern in the way that the morning service achieves.

Secondly, in the morning HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) run every half hour, by virtue of being able to position themselves in time when they otherwise would not be used ie early morning (or running up from the South West). This isn't possible in the evening, as they need to turn around at BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) to run back to London (or else more sets would be needed). So there is much less capacity in the evening than in the morning.

They've recently switched the services that carry on to Weston from the 00 departure ex Paddington to the 30 departure (and added an additional service by the way, so we now have 6 hourly depatures from 1430 to 1930). Effect is that HSTs now leave BTM at around 15 instead of 45.

I think the 1753 just about copes (I tried to count the number waiting one evening, and it seemed consistent with the number standing once on board), but any further increase in passenger volumes will leave this service prone to excessive overcrowding.

[Btline]

Prehaps the DAFT should decree NOW that London Midland MUST use the 180s untill there new stuff is built ,and cascade the 3 car 150s to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) NOW

Now theres an idea! That would really help things out at the moment. I think its crazy that the 180s are heading towards the sidings whilst passengers are crammed into two car trains. Problem is this is too much like common sense for it to happen but we live in hope! Still prefer to see the 180s on the Cardiff-Portsmouth line though despite their costs I think you would encourage more to travel on this line if they knew they would actually get a seat on the train.

Not good. The 180s would have huge loading times on the Snow Hill lines (commuter). They are too long for Harlebury station.

Also, the 150s are going to Northern, not FGW.

Keep the 180s on the Cotswold Line, or give them to Chiltern and release some 168s for LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise), to release 150s for FGW.

[Shazz]

Prehaps the DAFT should decree NOW that London Midland MUST use the 180s untill there new stuff is built ,and cascade the 3 car 150s to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) NOW

Now theres an idea! That would really help things out at the moment. I think its crazy that the 180s are heading towards the sidings whilst passengers are crammed into two car trains. Problem is this is too much like common sense for it to happen but we live in hope! Still prefer to see the 180s on the Cardiff-Portsmouth line though despite their costs I think you would encourage more to travel on this line if they knew they would actually get a seat on the train.

Not good. The 180s would have huge loading times on the Snow Hill lines (commuter). They are too long for Harlebury station.

Also, the 150s are going to Northern, not FGW.

Keep the 180s on the Cotswold Line, or give them to Chiltern and release some 168s for LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise), to release 150s for FGW.

the 3 cars maybe.

but as far as i'm aware theres a contract signed and sealed for 10 or so 2 car 150's to go to FGW

Maybe vacman/ollie can shed some more light on this

[smokey]

Prehaps the DAFT should decree NOW that London Midland MUST use the 180s untill there new stuff is built ,and cascade the 3 car 150s to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) NOW

Now theres an idea! That would really help things out at the moment. I think its crazy that the 180s are heading towards the sidings whilst passengers are crammed into two car trains. Problem is this is too much like common sense for it to happen but we live in hope! Still prefer to see the 180s on the Cardiff-Portsmouth line though despite their costs I think you would encourage more to travel on this line if they knew they would actually get a seat on the train.

168 are Thames Turbo's are they not?

The Thames Turbo being wider than other stock are never likely to move away from Paddington Services.

Not good. The 180s would have huge loading times on the Snow Hill lines (commuter). They are too long for Harlebury station.

Also, the 150s are going to Northern, not FGW.

Keep the 180s on the Cotswold Line, or give them to Chiltern and release some 168s for LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise), to release 150s for FGW.

[Btline]

168s are Clubmans and they are also Turbostars.

The earlier batch LOOK (from the outside) like a Thames Turbo, inside like a Turbostar. The later batch have the Turbostar look outside as well!

Chiltern do operate Thames Turbos too.

[smokey]

The Safety Issue with overcrowded trains is a bit strange, OK we all would like to have a seat in a train.

Yet in a Crash, a busy train well loaded is sometimes safer than a lightly loaded train, put a strawberry or 6 in a Jam Jar put lid on and shake it about, result a Mess. Now fill a Jam Jar with Strawberries lid on and shake it about, because it's tighly packed little damage occurs.

However if this 7 year old had been crushed on the Branstaple-Exeter train that was 2x142 units with one packed and the other Empty because of H & S issues, the Media would have HUNG the safety lobby OUT TO DRY.

[Btline]

Don't like your logic.

if people are stood up, they are thrown around. They might also be standing in the crumple zone of the train.

The main reason why only one person died in the Lake District crash last year, was that the train was not overcrowded, and everyone was seated.

[devon_metro]

Pacers are useless though, most of the train is a crumple zone!

[smokey]

Pacers are useless though, most of the train is a crumple zone!

More like a Fly Off Zone, leave the Chassis and Wheels behind!!

[devon_metro]

yep

http://mark5811.fotopic.net/p10570452.html

[John R]

There's a letter in this month's Modern Railways mentioning this incident and generally bemoaning the reduction from 3 to 2 coaches on the line.

[vacman]

There's a letter in this month's Modern Railways mentioning this incident and generally bemoaning the reduction from 3 to 2 coaches on the line.

Lets hope they do become 3 cars from May then!

[Steve44]

I've used this service from Bath to Pompey before a few times, and one time it said on the board before the train had arrived that it was reported to be overcrowded.. but there was no resolution or any extra transport laid on.  If they knew this service was so busy, why was it reduced to one an hour? I don't understand the logic, is there an answer?

[Timmer]

I've used this service from Bath to Pompey before a few times, and one time it said on the board before the train had arrived that it was reported to be overcrowded.. but there was no resolution or any extra transport laid on.  If they knew this service was so busy, why was it reduced to one an hour? I don't understand the logic, is there an answer?

Cardiff-Portsmouth has always been hourly since 1988. The recent overcrowding problems started when DFT^▸ (Department for Transport)/FGW^▸ (First Great Western) reduced the fleet of three car 158s back to two cars and its been chaos 7 days a week ever since on a great deal of services that are not operated either by the sole three car 158 or services which are operated as four car and thats not many, only during 'peak' commuting time Mon-Fri.

Weekends have seen the worst overcrowding because of the less frequent timetable which makes it all the more annoying when you see empty sets sitting in the sidings which could be used to lengthen services 

Once again I do say that overcrowding happened on this line under the Wales and West and Wessex Trains franchises but thats why Wessex made some of their fleet of 158s three carriages to help relieve the problem.

The good news is that three car 158s are making a comeback. See:
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1670.msg12673#msg12673