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Author Topic: Stock cascade of class 150s  (Read 154751 times)
JayMac
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« Reply #375 on: December 18, 2011, 18:03:02 »

Nothing sits in Swindon , and not strictly true 2O00 is diagrammed 2 car 158 utilising the SWT (South West Trains) Hired set

That doesn't tally with the info provided by FGW (First Great Western) regarding strengthened services from 12th December.

Also, hasn't the SWT 158 returned to them?
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« Reply #376 on: December 18, 2011, 18:19:24 »

Nothing sits in Swindon , and not strictly true 2O00 is diagrammed 2 car 158 utilising the SWT (South West Trains) Hired set

Agreed nothing sits at Swindon.   But I'm a bit confused here.

The 07:04 Westbury to Swindon - getting there at 07:48 and continues to Cheltenham.  Is that 2O00, or have things (and the hired SWT set's disposition) changed?

The 07:11 Gloucester to Swindon (via Chippenham) gets to Swindon at 09:03. This is the one I was asking about  ... surely not the SWT set?  It's reported earlier in this thread as 3 cars now, and has been running as 150 + 153, I understand.  It then forms the 09:54 to Cheltenham, getting there at 11:05.  I thought it came back at 12:01 from Cheltenham, into Swindon again (13:04 to 13:54), but is it still 3 cars at that point?  Seems an awful lot of standing time too if I have this right??

Sorry - don't have the train numbers - help in sorting out the confusion would be appreciated.  Thanks.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 18:56:29 by grahame » Logged

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« Reply #377 on: December 18, 2011, 19:25:41 »

The unit departs as a three coach set up towards Gloucester just before 10am, with, it would appear the 153 locked out of use. When it returns to Swindon it's only the 150. The SWT (South West Trains) set is the unit that forms the alternate workings, and so is not relevant to graham's question. 
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fatcontroller
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« Reply #378 on: December 19, 2011, 01:00:33 »

Nothing sits in Swindon , and not strictly true 2O00 is diagrammed 2 car 158 utilising the SWT (South West Trains) Hired set

Agreed nothing sits at Swindon.   But I'm a bit confused here.

The 07:04 Westbury to Swindon - getting there at 07:48 and continues to Cheltenham.  Is that 2O00, or have things (and the hired SWT set's disposition) changed?

The 07:11 Gloucester to Swindon (via Chippenham) gets to Swindon at 09:03. This is the one I was asking about  ... surely not the SWT set?  It's reported earlier in this thread as 3 cars now, and has been running as 150 + 153, I understand.  It then forms the 09:54 to Cheltenham, getting there at 11:05.  I thought it came back at 12:01 from Cheltenham, into Swindon again (13:04 to 13:54), but is it still 3 cars at that point?  Seems an awful lot of standing time too if I have this right??

Sorry - don't have the train numbers - help in sorting out the confusion would be appreciated.  Thanks.

The 153 is required to strengthen Gloucester - Bristol aspect of the Gloucester - Swindon service.

It is detached at Gloucester upon arrival to then attach to the 1442 Gloucester - Westbury which arrives in Gloucester as a single 153 from Bristol. This is due to 11:10 Weymouth - Gloucester being split into a Weymouth-Bristol service and a Bristol - Gloucester service in order to improve performance. The 11:10 is a notorious poor performer.
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« Reply #379 on: December 19, 2011, 01:01:30 »

The 07:11 Gloucester to Swindon, now 3 carriages.  150 + 153, I believe.

Question - what happens to the second unit from Swindon - does it strengthen the Stroud Valley all day, or get taken off somewhere to come back into play in the evening peak?

If it sits in Swindon all day then perhaps it could be used to provide a  regular service between Swindon & Westbury  providing there are paths etc available.

There really is an obsession involving Melksham isn't there?!?!
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« Reply #380 on: December 19, 2011, 01:03:09 »

Where's Melksham?  Tongue
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« Reply #381 on: December 19, 2011, 07:24:32 »

This is due to 11:10 Weymouth - Gloucester being split into a Weymouth-Bristol service and a Bristol - Gloucester service in order to improve performance. The 11:10 is a notorious poor performer.
Hardly surprising because of the tight turn around at Weymouth of the previous service arriving at 11.03. You only have to have to busy service picking up many day trippers heading to Weymouth and it starts to lose time, especially if operated by a 158/153 where entry/exit isn't as fast as a 150.
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« Reply #382 on: December 19, 2011, 18:20:27 »

There really is an obsession involving Melksham isn't there?!?!

So there should be to remind DaFT» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) and FGW (First Great Western) that the matter will not go away

Edited to disentangle and truncate quote for clarity
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 18:54:05 by inspector_blakey » Logged
phile
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« Reply #383 on: December 19, 2011, 19:49:40 »

The 0723 goes on to form the 1051 Great Malvern - Brighton hence the formation being 3-cars in order to strengthen the  Brighton service.


There are no 2-car 158 diagrams anymore as they should all have been 3cars by now.

The 0723 may be a coach short but there are other services around the same time that are now a lot bigger.
Thanks very much for your reply.
Phil
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grahame
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« Reply #384 on: December 20, 2011, 09:59:06 »

There really is an obsession involving Melksham isn't there?!?!

So there should be to remind DaFT» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) and FGW (First Great Western) that the matter will not go away

Let me give a bit of background as to why I asked.

Those of us who are concerned that the current TransWilts service is too sparse to be fit for purpose have often looked at (and continue to look at) units parked up for 35 minutes in every 120, at Cheltenham, 70 minutes in every 120 at Swindon, and during the day between peaks at Westbury and various other places.  We've also looked at hourly services in our area where - suddenly in the middle of the day - an extra train runs 10 minutes behind the hourly service, calling at just one other station, and we've looked at some strange sorties by trains into areas served predominantly by other franchises - running so close to those other trains at times that we wonder at the minimum headway that the signals must provide there!

We do this so that we can understand.  To help us better ask sensible questions, and to make good suggestions as to where a small change could make a big difference. And indeed I have three examples that I can immediatey think of where such suggestions have been taken up, or perhaps where a similar though has come to the professionals and the result has been that what we may have hoped for - small things thus far - have happened.

My question about the extra 153 that's just been added to the service to Swindon was to help us understand the disposition of an extra train that's possibly in the area for part of the day - and many thanks, fatcontroller, for providing that information.  We now know it sits at Gloucester for 232 minutes.  It's another piece in our jigsaw of understanding.  Alas - I'm not sure if it will lead to any useful suggestions, or simply be a blind alley that's examined and then found to be blind ... let's see ...

If the 153 formed an 09:15 service from Swindon to Salisbury, then a 10:30 Salisbury to Swindon, it could carry on with the 11:54 to Gloucester and be in place there in excellent time for it's 14:22 onward service. BUT there are multiple concerns there.  Firstly, would such an extra service alone tip the balance from a service that's run at such a low level, and such strange times, that it fails to attract reasonable custom into one which naturally grows?  I personally would guess that at least an equivalent service would be needed late afternoon to tip the balance.  Secondly, there are more complex issues to look at on the Westbury / Salisbury 'leg' - a danger of doubling up in exactly the same way I have described above as being a potential waste of resources, and thus perhaps an opportunity to sort out something more radical there.

If the 153 dettached from the Gloucester - Swindon train at Bristol, Bath or Chippenham and ran via Westbury or Warminster (reverse) to Swindon ... but then what about route and platform capacities along the way?  And we've still not quite tipped the balance, or have we?  For we have provided an arrival in Swindon at around 10 a.m., which when linked with the 18:44 Swindon to Southampton provides an 8.75 hour day from Warminster (perhaps), Dilton Marsh (perhaps) Westbury, Trowbridge and Melksham to Swindon (in contrast to current 11 hour offering) and would provide a 9.25 hour day from the same stations to Chippenham (in contrast to the current 11.5 hour day)

If ... - yes - there are other suggestions too.  Experience tells me that for every 9 blind alleys, there may be one that works. Of course, I'm an amateur who's not really equipped to know which is which - but we've seen various proofs over the years that from apparently fully utilised resources a little extra can be squeezed and that the little extra can have a dramatic effect.  19:37, Sunday, Westbury to Swindon.  Average passengers - 200 when there's an 08:20 Swindon to Westbury on Sunday morning, 20 when the 08:20 Swindon to Westbury does not run. And the 08:20 is use of a set that would otherwise be parked in the siding at that time.

There is, indeed, a natural tendency for many of us to look at the TransWilts line more strongly than others.  The TransWilts 'service' is, frankly, inappropriate for the needs of the corridor served unlike other services in the area.  So it needs for discussion and attention. 
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« Reply #385 on: December 20, 2011, 13:34:00 »

Well said Grahame, this is almost exactly the reason I'm interested to find out if the 153 that sits at Swansea for much of the day at the moment is guaranteed to be there. If it is, it could be used to plug the 5hr afternoon gap in Fishguard's, otherwise finally approaching useful, service.
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« Reply #386 on: December 20, 2011, 18:51:30 »

It would have to be funded.   Doubtful if it would get to Fishguard and back when pathing has to be considered especially with SLW stretch through Gowerton.
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inspector_blakey
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« Reply #387 on: December 20, 2011, 18:54:48 »

Gentle reminder folks: we already have an existing thread dealing with services in south west Wales.

Please can we keep this one specific to the cascade of 150 units to FGW (First Great Western) that has recently occurred and its specific implications please? Thanks.
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fatcontroller
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« Reply #388 on: December 20, 2011, 19:41:26 »

There really is an obsession involving Melksham isn't there?!?!

So there should be to remind DaFT» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) and FGW (First Great Western) that the matter will not go away

If the 153 formed an 09:15 service from Swindon to Salisbury, then a 10:30 Salisbury to Swindon, it could carry on with the 11:54 to Gloucester and be in place there in excellent time for it's 14:22 onward service. BUT there are multiple concerns there.  Firstly, would such an extra service alone tip the balance from a service that's run at such a low level, and such strange times, that it fails to attract reasonable custom into one which naturally grows?  I personally would guess that at least an equivalent service would be needed late afternoon to tip the balance.  Secondly, there are more complex issues to look at on the Westbury / Salisbury 'leg' - a danger of doubling up in exactly the same way I have described above as being a potential waste of resources, and thus perhaps an opportunity to sort out something more radical there.


The problem that exists in Swindon is that the platforms are not permissible for passenger trains; therefore your "new" 1030 Salisbury - Swindon would need to arrive onto a different platform (1 or 3) and then shunt empty into the bay to attach to the 11:54. I don't know whether there is sufficient time or there is a sufficient gap to allow the shunt to take place with other services around.
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« Reply #389 on: December 20, 2011, 20:25:40 »


The problem that exists in Swindon is that the platforms are not permissible for passenger trains;

I am really sorry fatcontroller - please don't be offended but I don't understand this comment... please could you explain for a simpleton like me.  Thanks
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