Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 13:35 02 May 2024
* New weather warning after thunderstorms hit UK
- Russia blamed for GPS interference affecting flights in Europe
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 18/05/24 - BRTA Westbury
22/05/24 - WWRUG / TransWilts update
02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber

On this day
2nd May (1859)
Wilton South station opened

Train RunningCancelled
13:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
Short Run
10:55 Paignton to London Paddington
12:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
13:18 Hereford to London Paddington
PollsThere are no open or recent polls
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
May 02, 2024, 13:38:09 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[275] Vintage film - how valid are these issues today?
[81] Leven, Fife, Scotland, fast forward a month
[74] Train drivers "overwhelmingly white middle aged men"
[59] Visiting the pub on the way home.
[22] underground plans for Bristol update.
[15] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5
  Print  
Author Topic: Eurostar trains stuck in tunnel due to cold weather (19 December 2009)  (Read 22454 times)
John R
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4416


View Profile
« Reply #45 on: December 25, 2009, 22:42:38 »

Hmm. Am I the only one not to be impressed by this public criticism of each other? Surely now both parties should wait for the report, whichh I suspect is the only one that Joe Public will believe. 
Logged
Electric train
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4363


The future is 25000 Volts AC 750V DC has its place


View Profile
« Reply #46 on: December 26, 2009, 08:39:01 »

Eurotunnel and Eurostar will be throwing snow balls at each other for months over this unfortunately some snow balls will be loaded with stones
Logged

Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
eightf48544
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4574


View Profile Email
« Reply #47 on: December 26, 2009, 12:37:09 »

One of them also seems to be throwing snowballs at Kent Police for "uneccessary checks".

Presumably the standard British paranoia re things  foreign.


I'm surprised they didn't call out the Army to repell Napaleon.
Logged
RailCornwall
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 642


View Profile
« Reply #48 on: December 26, 2009, 18:21:39 »

Can anyone really find fault with people wanting to take their possessions with them in this case, there was no real danger as the roling stock was stationary? Any dislocation with bags would have been prolonged and inevitably some of it would have been lost in transit. Heathrow T5 is a classic case of this. Labelling would have been non existant on most hand baggage anyway.

If there had been an accident or fire things would have been different as the danger level would have been ratcheted up several notches.

Logged
Electric train
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4363


The future is 25000 Volts AC 750V DC has its place


View Profile
« Reply #49 on: December 26, 2009, 22:40:34 »

Can anyone really find fault with people wanting to take their possessions with them in this case, there was no real danger as the roling stock was stationary? Any dislocation with bags would have been prolonged and inevitably some of it would have been lost in transit. Heathrow T5 is a classic case of this. Labelling would have been non existant on most hand baggage anyway.
If there had been an accident or fire things would have been different as the danger level would have been ratcheted up several notches.
Controlling the evacuation of several hundred people which will include children and people with mobility problems is difficult enough to include the mobile tripping hazards (suit cases on wheels) as well hinders the whole process people become more concerned for their own possessions than perhaps in helping others.
Logged

Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
RailCornwall
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 642


View Profile
« Reply #50 on: December 27, 2009, 19:56:02 »

Agreed but I still believe people have some rights to ensure that in the circumstances of this particular incident that they are not parted from their possessions.

Logged
Chris from Nailsea
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 17900


I am not railway staff


View Profile Email
« Reply #51 on: December 27, 2009, 20:12:03 »

I agree; carrying small valuable items out with you - personal effects, laptops, hand luggage, for example - is surely reasonable?  But not piano-size wheeled suitcases!
Logged

William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
Btline
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4782



View Profile
« Reply #52 on: December 27, 2009, 21:46:44 »

I know you shouldn't, but I rather keep my suitcase with me! People probably assumed (correctly) that if they left their suitcases, it would take an age to get them back, and chances are they'd be damaged or empty.

Sorry, but I'd have done the same (unless there was a fire and QUICK evacuation was required. NB that this was slow and "non emergency" alighting.
Logged
John R
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4416


View Profile
« Reply #53 on: December 28, 2009, 20:14:42 »

I believe the footway you have to walk along to reach one of the access points to the service tunnel is relatively narrow. ie adequate for an individual to walk along, but not when they start taking luggage.

Entirely different situation, but I'm reminded of the article in the Standard of a passenger in the Heathrow Plane Crash a couple of years ago. He criticised everyone from the other passengers, flightcrew,BA» (British Airways - about), BAA, and how badly everyone had been treated. But at the start he painted the picture of sitting at the top of the emergency chute, clutching his laptop, before taking the plunge.

So... what would have happened had his laptop slipped out of his hands as he descended and cracked someone on the head.  He probably didn't think of that, but the rules for emergency evacuation are there for a reason. To get people out safely, quickly, in circumstances which are not designed or suitable for everyday use.   
Logged
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18925



View Profile
« Reply #54 on: January 15, 2010, 14:34:51 »

From Nigel Harris' (editor of RAIL magazine) blog on railmagazine.com

I rarely get angry on other peoples behalf but Emma's story made my blood boil. Shame on you Eurostar. Apologies for the rather large post but I felt the blog entry needed to be quoted in full:

Quote
The shame of Eurostar & Eurotunnel ^ Saturday January 9 2010

This blog is intended to be read in conjunction with my Comment and News coverage in RAIL 635, about the traumatic experience which Eurostar and Eurotunnel inflicted on their customers over three days, December 19-21.

The failure of the five Eurostar trains in the Channel Tunnel on the evening of December 18 was bad enough and the sequence of events has been well chronicled in both general and specialist media. I don^t intend to repeat that chapter of cock-ups again here, nor do I intend to pick apart the cack-handed rescue/recovery operation, botched media response and other incompetence which was writ large throughout this ghastly chapter of events.

Managers far removed from the front line seem to have no conception of the misery they impose on ordinary folk when they get it wrong, or dither, or are risk averse in getting things moving when it goes horribly wrong. Is it because many of them today have not ^come up through the ranks^ and are therefore managing a product they cannot see and have not had to deliver personally themselves?

I plead guilty to this charge myself. in the aftermath of an incident or accident, offering lots of specialist media comment, I too can get so wrapped up in talk of signals and track, motors, snow or human error, or whatever it^s about, that I also fail to really relate to (or sometimes even consider) in any detail what the passengers have gone through on the front line. That^s wrong ^ they are the most important people.

We all say we care and I^m sure, in our own ways, we do. But a bit of help and a cold water reality check don^t hurt once in a while - and so I urge everyone browsing here to read this excellent account, by wife and mum Emma Powney, of the 17 hours she spent in Eurostar^s and Eurotunnel^s ^care^ on the evening of December 18.


It certainly put the events of December 18 into sharp focus for me. I have no doubt it will do likewise for anyone involved with today^s railway for Emma makes painfully clear what misery and trauma this industry is capable if inflicting those who pay so handsomely to make it all possible. And what^s worse is not so much the breakdowns ^ it^s the cack-handed, incompetent and seemingly uncaring way in which passengers were overlooked, herded around, ignored, forgotten and shamefully treated afterwards.

I defy anyone who has anything to do with the railway not to hang their heads in shame or grind their teeth in fury (or both) at Emma^s simple tale of the appalling experience inflicted on her family (and hundreds of others) by the railway.

Here^s her story:

^We boarded the Eurostar after our first delay on Friday night at 6.30pm from Disneyland.  It wasn^t too long into the journey that our train stopped after a couple of loud bangs from outside. By 10.00pm we had sat in the tunnel and been given very little info on what our predicament was, all except that a broken-down train was stopping our way from proceeding and that it would be 10 minutes until we got going again. Now, we should have been home already, so people are starting to get a tad irritated.

^An instruction from the tannoy tells us that the train is going to power down and that the lights will go off for a short time. So the lights go off and the kids have already been told to sit down a million times since we left, and are getting tired and restless.

^The train starts to get hot. Really hot. An argument breaks out at one end of our carriage between a group of adults that turns nasty. At the other end, a passenger is trying to force the doors open so we can get some air. The lights go on for a brief time, only to go off again, so adding to the already difficult situation.

A paramedic comes though and brings out a lady who is suffering badly, being claustrophobic. Kids have been stripped to their nappies and underwear, and what water we had is being shared between them all.


^The passenger working on the door finally gets it open, and a trickle of people jump the large gap between the train and the tunnel walkway. A girl starts hyperventilating and has to be taken to sit on the tunnel side. She is with her grandma who has another granddaughter asleep further down the carriage, so we assure her that while she checks on the sleeping one we will take care of the hyperventilating one.

^While this is going on the adults have reached breaking point at the end of our carriage and have kicked-off. My children are tired and crying, as it is so hot. Another toddler with his Dad is very quiet and is brought to the doors to try and cool down, although it was just as hot, if not hotter, in the tunnel. The little boy vomits everywhere and the dad is understandably shaky. Another lady, with her child wearing just a nappy, bursts into tears and gets hysterical, so I have a go at calming her down. My eldest son (5) has clearly had enough and sobs uncontrollably.

^Still no communication from Eurostar. We are still sitting/puking/walking/ crying/hyperventilating - all in the dark. Then ^Dave^ from Essex police pipes up over the tannoy that it^s not safe to open the doors or get out. Sorry Dave, no option there, the restless have already done it!

^Finally, after a confusing period of time, we are told to gather ourselves and get off the train. Do we take our luggage, or leave it? Don^t know, as we are not told. So we gather ourselves up, dress the sweating kids in all their winter gear and we all get off the train, two tired kids, and all our luggage, crossing over the very large gap and we wait on the tunnel side for further instructions.

^We hope we have all our belongings, but we don^t know for sure because we couldn^t see anything in the dark. Also, may I add, there was no help from Eurostar staff in getting our stuff off the train or carrying it along the small walkway, with the two tired kids and all our further holiday shopping. We had to rely on strangers - very kind strangers - who saw we were struggling.

^But where do we go? We haven^t been told. A passenger tells us that we are to walk along the tunnel and follow the stream of other passengers, but this is easier said than done in an already stressful situation.

^After negotiating the tunnel walkway we cross over an intermediate tunnel with a van in it and are told by a passenger (not a member of staff) to board the train in the furthest tunnel, even though it normally only takes vehicles. So, we all board and find a place to dump our stuff.

^This train is mighty filthy, as you can imagine. It^s just for cars and the floor is wet. There^s still no communication from Eurostar. By this time it^s knocking on for 3am! Finally, my kids fall asleep through pure exhaustion. I have to use the blankets we bought at Disney to lay on the wet, filthy floor, so they could sleep. After an hour we are still sitting aboard the car train, and another argument breaks out.

^Finally we are told conflicting statements! One is that we will be going back to Calais to stay in a hotel and be given food. Another that we will be taken to Folkestone aboard the car train and there we will be transferred to a Eurostar train (is this so that to the outside world it appears that we made the journey by that train, with seats, rather than the car train on which we had to sleep on the dirtry, wet floor?) ^ and be taken to London. We, along with many others, weren^t heading for London, but Ashford, so that caused a row and more rioting broke out!

^Finally, around 4am, I lost it - and it all got too much. Looking at my kids being forced to sleep on the floor, exhausted and knackered, I had a "moment" before trying to calm down. After more hours of waiting we finally arrive at Folkestone. So we all get up and wake our kids up ^ but my eldest is sobbing as he is so tired, falls over, cries some more. Exhausted, filthy, cold, tired, laden with luggage and two sleeping kids, we wait patiently to try and get off the train.

^Another riot breaks out and in the row I hear a frantic mum pleading with a French worker. Another mum explains her son is now in need of medical attention; yet another explains that her baby has no more formula milk. A gentleman asks the workers to please sort out the disgusting toilets as his child needs to use them - they can^t, so the poor lad wees on the floor in front of a crowd of people. Another lady shoves a Eurotunnel worker and that^s when I called the police. The police assured me that they were on their way. It started to get really out of hand. Passengers begging to be let off the train, only to be told ^no.^

After another two hours we are finally allowed off and have been assured that a proper Eurostar train is waiting for us. Well great, it is, but it^s locked and the crew to operate it isn^t there, so all the kids that have been woken up fall back asleep, only to have to be woken again to stand in the snow waiting to get on the locked/unmanned Eurostar.

While we queue we are told this train is not going to Ashford, which causes a lady behind me to ^lose it^ with a police officer. She is threatened with being arrested and I feel for her as at this point we have been awake and travelled for 14 hours. I start crying as again this is just so traumatic, and I find an English police officer and practically beg him to tell me anything he knows. He shows great compassion and I finally felt a bit more human again.

We all get the news we want that the train will stop at Ashford. It^s 8am and we board the train, only to sit there for another hour to be told nothing. We then imagine it can only be a 20-minute journey to Ashford. A group walks in to our carriage and starts banging on the driver^s door, demanding information. It^s been 16 hours and we have been offered a pain au chocolat, the kids are inconsolable; we are at the end of our tether.

The train, after much stop-starting, gets us into Ashford at around 10am - two hours from getting into Folkestone. I felt like kissing the damn platform. Going through the station a tannoy announced that the barriers are up on the car park, so we don^t have to pay! "Oh wow" (clean version) we say, what generosity.

We are handed a sticker with the number of the Eurostar complaints/customer services to call, as there^s no chance to get the desk, and anyway we just need to get our kids home and back to some normality, a clean bed and a clean nappy, as we ran out of those 16 hours ago!

A further hour later we are home - THANK GOODNESS.

I can honestly say that there has been no apology, there^s been a "we understand your situation" - but no formal ^sorry.^ The complete lack of communication was unbelievable. We were treated worse than transporting cattle - I^m sure at the very least they would have been fed.

I can appreciate that this is an odd situation, but surely a large company like Eurostar would have had some form of contingency plan, some kind of procedure to follow. All we had was a very frightened French Eurostar worker who was shaking so much that he was of no use, too afraid of the passengers that had been held in for too long. I felt for him.

I can only thank the people that helped us throughout this ordeal: the group of Scottish ladies with their children, the gent who kindly gave us nappies, the young ^uni^ lot who ran around getting us water, and most of all Darren, Stacey and Milly who helped us with our luggage, our kids and me when I finally went mental at a French worker.^


How can the railway be so badly organised to inflict such cruelty ^ for that^s what this was ^ on its customers? Although there are clearly issues about the breakdowns themselves (along with many engineers, I remain sceptical about the reasons being given for the failures) I find myself angrier about the clear lack of an emergency plan afterwards ^ or the fact that it was so badly rehearsed as to have been virtually useless.

Like Emma, I really feel for the solitary member of Eurostar staff, alone on a train of maybe 700 panicking passengers, who probably had no information himself, given that Eurostar seemingly cannot talk to its own staff in the tunnel. All communications, it seems, are through Eurotunnel. That sole member of Eurostar staff must have been not so much as terrified as, rather terrified OF the increasingly distressed, angry and panicking passengers.

Why does it take five or six HOURS to get a train out of the tunnel? And if it has to stay there so long, there^s a perfectly good service tunnel through which specialised vehicles can travel, why can^t extra, specially^trained staff to assist and reassure be quickly put aboard? Likewise water, and food?

If the problems ARE so bad as to require the train to sit there for the equivalent of a working day, why not use the service tunnel to get food, water and maybe emergency power aboard for the hotel facilities? Why do they just have to be left to nearly suffocate in soaring temperatures and airlessness?

Why were passengers made to traipse around like refugees, lugging their own luggage?

Why aren^t there a pair of Class 92s (God knows there are enough of them lying around) on Thunderbird duty at each end of the Tunnel, ready to go at a moment^s notice?

Why did Eurotunnel take the moronic view that this was a ^technical breakdown^ and not an emergency?

Why couldn^t the most basic things be done properly or even done at all?

The questions just go on^ and on^and on^.

And what explanations have we had?

Boiling it down, it goes like this:

Eurotunnel blames Eurostar.

Eurostar blames ^unique^ snow, which it says ^has never been seen before^, for which it says it cannot be expected to have been prepared.

Chris Garnett^s independent report must make sense of this shambles ^ otherwise his own top-notch reputation will be tarnished by this masterclass in incompetence from Eurostar and Eurotunnel.

Here^s one suggestion, Chris, for after the important big recommendations are made. Why not ask Emma if her account can be made available as part of the mandatory training for anyone who has anything to do with Eurotunnel and Eurostar?

Better still, ask her and some of the others she says shared her family^s ordeal to stand up in front of these ^managers^ and have them tell those who failed them so badly just what misery their dithering and failings put them through. Eye to eye.

Unless managers who have to deal with these incidents understand ^ properly - what these people really went through, they might just act too slowly again next time trains break down in the tunnel.

Because we all know it will happen. But there^s no excuse not to be prepared.

 

« Last Edit: January 15, 2010, 14:49:08 by bignosemac » Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
Worcester_Passenger
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1724


View Profile
« Reply #55 on: January 15, 2010, 19:14:29 »

Thank you for posting that. As Nigel Harris says, a salutary lesson to everybody. I'll certainly be passing that link on to other people to read.
Logged
John R
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4416


View Profile
« Reply #56 on: January 15, 2010, 20:37:23 »

I hope Nigel Harris ensures Chris Garnett reads that account. It sounds completely incompetent, particularly once they finally emerged at Folkestone. After all, there had been enough time for Eurostar to sort something out by the time they emerged.   
Logged
eightf48544
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4574


View Profile Email
« Reply #57 on: January 15, 2010, 23:30:24 »

What with the two fires and now the snow it really seems Eurostar and Eurotunnel don't have any plan Bs.

If they do they must be written on different hymn sheets.
Logged
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18925



View Profile
« Reply #58 on: January 16, 2010, 02:15:54 »

I don't think Eurostar and Eurotunnel had even one hymn sheet to sing from between them. Eurotunnel's press releases in the aftermath were nothing short of abysmal.

(Network Rail - home page)/rdonlyres/E69E8275-E4E9-4B65-AC6A-D5A8E9931DD7/0/091219Eurotunnel_rescues_Eurostar.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.eurotunnel.co.uk/NR/rdonlyres/E69E8275-E4E9-4B65-AC6A-D5A8E9931DD7/0/091219Eurotunnel_rescues_Eurostar.pdf

http://www.eurotunnel.co.uk/NR/rdonlyres/C84E6EB2-C407-4302-BC4C-252FAF884033/0/091219Despite_weather_conditions_Eurotunnel_Shuttles_operate.pdf

http://www.eurotunnel.co.uk/NR/rdonlyres/447E34FA-3418-45CA-8AB0-DDDA022C7983/0/091221Eurotunnel_keeps_crossChannel_services_operating.pdf

I'm sorely tempted to break forum rules and say what I actually think of Eurotunnel's responses, but I'll hold my tongue as I'm not sure what justifies 'fair comment' and I wouldn't want a letter from Mssrs Carter-Ruck to land on mine and the Mod's doorsteps. Knowing my luck with the legal system I'd be up in front of Mr Justice Eady before I knew what hit me!
Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18925



View Profile
« Reply #59 on: January 18, 2010, 14:55:09 »

Eurostar expects to pay passengers ^10m compensation. From the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Quote
Eurostar has admitted that it expects to pay up to ^10m in compensation to passengers affected by the travel chaos before Christmas.

Thousands of people were stranded in the Channel Tunnel when five trains broke down in December because of condensation in their electrics.

Eurostar cancelled all services for three days to establish what went wrong and carry out safety tests.

In a letter of apology, Eurostar said improvements had been made.

'Apologise unreservedly'

Chief executive Richard Brown said: "I am acutely aware that we have to win back the trust of our customers following the disruption to our services before Christmas.

"We failed to deliver the standard of service you expect and I apologise unreservedly for the problems that occurred.

"Going forward, we need to demonstrate to you that we are doing everything possible to provide the most robust, reliable service during periods of severe weather.

"We are also very aware of the need for better information."

Mr Brown said the firm had strengthened its communication processes to provide better real-time information, increased the amount of food and drink kept on trains and developed a special timetable for extreme weather conditions.

He also said when the weather was bad engineers would check the trains before they entered the tunnel and their would be speed restricted.

A review is being carried out into what happened. It was commissioned by Eurostar and will report by the end of January.

Mr Brown added: "We can't guarantee that Eurostar will never again be subject to extreme weather disruption, but we will do everything in our power to ensure that the chances of disruption are minimised.

"When disruption does occur we will provide our customers with the care that you rightly expect."

Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page