Role of the dispatcher

[whole diary]

[Brucey]

This may seem like a really stupid question, but what exactly is the role of the dispatcher (the person with the table tennis bat) at larger stations?  It is something that I've always wondered but never worked out.

The reason I ask is that not all stations have them, so I assume the guard does their job at smaller stations.  What do they do that the guard can't do?  Also, what is the purpose of the table tennis bat thing?  And does the table tennis bat thing actually have a name?

[Henry]

 'Train despatcher', platform staff, customer service assistant, used to be called porters many moons ago.

 

[inspector_blakey]

At busy stations the dispatcher(s) assists the guard by closing doors (on slam door stock), or advising the guard when it is safe to close power operated doors. The dispatch bat/dispatch baton depending on how posh you are is used to give the "tip" to the guard that station duties are complete. According to the rule book this "all right" signal can also be given by raising one arm above the head*, although generally the bat is used because it's much more visible on a busy platform. The whistle itself is not a formal part of the "all right" handsignal, but is widely used both to attract the guard's attention if necessary and also to alert everyone present that the train is about to leave.

On a long train with a curved platform it can be difficult for the guard to see all of the doors at once, so having dispatch staff to assist saves the guard having to walk the full length of the train checking doors and therefore also saves time. When dispatching as HST^▸ (High Speed Train), the dispatchers will first make sure all of the doors are properly closed, with the handles horizontal, then signal to the guard with the dispatch bat that it is OK to engage the secondary door locking. They will then carry out a second check of the doors, making sure they're correctly closed and that all of the orange lights have extinguished, before signalling once more to the guard who will then, as long as they are satisfied everything is in order, give the "right away" signal to the driver.

With driver-only trains at major stations (e.g. Reading) dispatchers will signal to the driver with a dispatch bat that is is safe to close the doors, then show a green flag once they have checked that all doors are closed and noone is trapped. In other places (e.g. Oxford) the platform starting signal has "CD^▸ (Capital Delivery)" (close doors) and "RA" (right away) indicators that are operated by the platform staff in place of handsignals. White lights and green lights are used at night in place of dispatch bats and green flags respectively (although some of the more recent dispatch bats have built in handlamp signals).

Finally, dispatch staff together with guards and drivers are responsible for checking the platform starting signal (where there is one - often there will be a repeater that illuminates on the platform showing "OFF" when the signal is clear if it's not readily visible from the platform). This is designed to avoid so-called "ding ding and away" SPADs^▸ (Signal Passed At Danger), where a train starts from a statio platform against a red signal.

Incidentally, should the need ever arise, a guard is fully competent to dispatch their own train from any station without the assistance of a dispatcher. However, as alluded to above, this will take extra time (imagine the implications of each HST running through Reading platform 4 sitting there for an extra minute or so...). Quite apart from the punctuality implications, I can't see the unions being too impressed by any attempt to reduce the role of dispatchers. dispatchers

*Apparently in days gone by staff would often use a rolled up newspaper instead of a dispatch bat, although I have no idea how true this story is!

[Super Guard]

 'Train despatcher', platform staff, customer service assistant, used to be called porters many moons ago.

 

Incorrect... Dispatcher/Platform Staff used to be called "Chargemen" in the "Good old days".

Porters carried bags for passengers, and there are none of those on the Railway anymore.

(ETA:  There are plenty of platform staff that will happily assist with baggage where appropriate.)

[JayMac]

 'Train despatcher', platform staff, customer service assistant, used to be called porters many moons ago.

 

Incorrect... Dispatcher/Platform Staff used to be called "Chargemen" in the "Good old days".

Porters carried bags for passengers, and there are none of those on the Railway anymore.

(ETA:  There are plenty of platform staff that will happily assist with baggage where appropriate.)

And yet, when I did agency work for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) at BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) a couple of years ago, I was told by a couple of the permanent Service Delivery Assistants and Customer Service Assistants that I shouldn't help passengers with luggage as I wasn't paid to do that. They also told me that the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) had told SDA/CSA's not to carry luggage, unless and until it was negotiated into contract terms.

Needless to say I ignored these old timers and helped out whenever I could. If I'm employed to offer Customer Service then that's what'll do.

[dog box]

..and put your back out humping some of the monstorous bags/cases people seem to take on trains these days.....

[inspector_blakey]

Without wishing to stereotype, you should see some of the bags that Americans manage to drag onto planes as "hand luggage" (two monstrous bags each, naturally). Said individuals can then get quite shirty when it turns out that either they're too big to fit in the overhead bins, or they're already full because lots of other people have been up to the same trick!

I caught a BA^» (British Airways - about) flight from the States last summer where the ground staff were strictly enforcing the carry-on size limits, much to the chagrin of a long line of irate American passengers.

[Henry]

 It seems to me some stations have different conditions.
 If you go to Totnes some early evenings, the same 'dispatcher' will ;-
 
 Sell you the ticket.
 Give you the train information.
 Help you on the train, if you need it.
 Then dispatch the train.

 What do the union make of that ?

[Henry]

 If Scotrail get their way, it's all down to the driver,

 http://www.rmt.org.uk/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=132163

[autotank]

I know we have done this before, but I am still to hear a decent argument against DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) using modern stock on track circuited lines.

In order for rail to be competitive in an age of significant financial pressure everyone needs to make sure operating costs are kept down. This is a brand new line so its not as if they are proposing to get rid of anyone by introducing DOO.

[IndustryInsider]

I know we have done this before, but I am still to hear a decent argument against DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) using modern stock on track circuited lines.

Well, I know where you're coming from - the savings are obviously a benefit, but having DOO on the suburban routes out of Paddington does have its drawbacks:

1) Revenue is affected as the locals can easily buy a ticket from Paddington to Acton Main Line to get through the barriers and then travel all the way to Burnham (or wherever) safe in the knowledge that they are most unlikely to get caught - in other examples, say Twyford to West Drayton, there are no barriers so no need to buy a ticket.

2) 1st Class ends up looking like a ghetto on some late trains as there is nobody to police it and ensure that people in 1st class have 1st class tickets. That same set might end up doing a Cotswold Line service the next morning, so no wonder there are complaints about the state of the trains.

3) With no presence in the train, there can be an intimidating atmosphere - especially for lone females late at night - which again will affect revenue as some potential journeys will not be made.

4) Vandalism and graffiti is much easier to get away with.  CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) now installed on the Turbos has helped cut this back quite significantly, but is of no use in the toilets.

5) There can be no doubt that safety would be affected in the event of a big emergency as one driver trying to deal with hundreds of passengers and ensure an incident is dealt with properly is impossible.  A recent turbo engine fire near Hayes is a prime example as people panicked when smoke started to enter the train, the driver stopped and contacted the signallers to request the fire brigade, during which time several passengers pulled the emergency egress and jumped onto the tracks - fortunately nobody was hit by anything the other way as it was at an area where the main and relief lines were a small distance apart.  Had there been a guard there, the situation would have been easier to control as he/she could have dealt with controlling the passengers, whilst the driver assessed the fire, made the train safe and dealt with calling the emergency services etc.  I'm not saying dealing with panicking passengers would be easy - but two people in charge would no doubt fare much better than one!

[dog box]

couldnt agree with you more Industry insider....anyone who possibly thinks  widespread DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) will lead to cheaper fares in the world of the privatised railway is somewhat mistaken, the fares arent any cheaper on existing doo routes now so why would anything change
Most Drivers would rather safely drive there train free from worrying about whats going on in the back, knowing there is someone else there to deal with customer related incidents.
i know of 2 sexual assaults on females that have taken place on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) services late at night within the last 6 months, both times a guard has been present and done the necessary things to get the offenders arrested.

in answer to your question henry there are about 3 grades of dispatch staff who have different job specifications according to where they work.

[Tim]

Almost completely agree with you Insider. 

Your arguements convince me that it is better to have two members of staff on a train than just one.  However, that is not quite the same thing as saying that the driver shouldn't be permitted to control the doors and dispatch the train leaving the second member of staff to control/look after the passengers.  The Scotrail proposal for their new service includes DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)), but not single manning of trains.  The trains would be staffed by a driver and a ticket examiner.

There have been many complaints on this board about the invisability of guards on trains and lack of ticket checks / throwing scrotes out of FC^‡(resolve) etc.  The arguments put forward in defence of the guards are usually along the lines of pointing out the guard's safety critical role and the fact that he may be busy with dispatch etc.  If the driver and/or platform staff dealt with that stuff, the second member of staff could concentrate on passenger facing duties and still be avilable and trained to do assist in evacuation and train protection in a serious emergency.   

I realise that DOO is difficult to implement on lightly used routes and requires extra platform equipment, but the fact that the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) have resisted allowing the driver to open the doors (with the guard closing them) reveals to be that the resistance to DOO is at least in part driven by self interest rather than safety concerns.

[John R]

Scotrail are proposing having a second person on the trains - just that they will be employed in a customer facing role, rather than operating the doors. So if anything revenue protection is improved as there is no need to stop checking tickets for station work. This method has been in use in the Strathclyde area for over 20 years, and the A to B services will simply be Strathclyde electric services extended to Edinburgh.

I've seen Scotrail quote that they need 130 extra staff to operate the service, so this is certainly not about preserving jobs.  
  

[readytostart]

The 130 new staff include drivers, ticket examiners, administrators and matainence staff for the new depot at Bathgate, if guards were to be provided on these trains instead of TEs, it would add an annual cost of less than the salary of the MD of ScotRail.
ScotRail argue that the cost of altering the design of the now in production class 380s would be around ^1.4m. From a totally personal view I would argue that because every train Siemens have built for the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) previously (to my knowledge) have had guard's door controls, it probably cost them to have the designs altered to start with.
To say this is a completely new line is also a misnomer, it's a reopening line that was closed during the Beeching cuts. The vast majority of the route that's is at the Eastern end where guards currently operate, the smaller proportion is at the Western end from Glasgow to Drumgelloch where ticket examiners operate. (I'm guessing Airdrie to Bathgate had a better ring to it). The provision of DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) trains would therefore remove the guard already present for the journey from Edinburgh to Bathgate. ScotRail aren't stopping here either, they've already announced four class 380s for the line to North Berwick, currently operated by guards. The reason the strike action gained so much from support is that those working in depots  elsewhere know this is just the tip of a very large iceberg.
As far as safety is concerned lets remember that in the event of a collision or derailment it is highly likely that the driver is unavailable. Looking back to the Ladbrook Grove crash of just over ten years ago, the driver of the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) and Turbo were both killed and it was the guard of the HST who made an emergency call and two members of Virgin Trains staff travelling on the HST who protected the line.
In the event of an on-board incident with a group of rowdy or violent passengers a DOO train could carry on to wherever it may be going with a TE knocked unconscious, wheras with a guard it would get as far as the next station.
I'm sure many of you would have a different view but I know which I'd rather travel on.
Also noone has mentioned yet that ScotRail have frogmarched managers and office staff onto a one week guards training course to enable them to operate '9 out of 10' services on strike days rather than the usual six, let alone time for any route learning or practical on-train experience and that to me is just reckless.