When is a short-formation not a short-formation

[whole diary]

[charles_uk]

Having recently been taken to task for referring to a service which is in the timetable as an HST^▸ (High Speed Train)/IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) but has been run as a Turbo for the last few weeks as a "short-formation", can anyone tell me what a short-formation is as far as GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) is concerned?

In this particular case, it seems that because it is a planned change, it's not classified as a formation change so does not get shown on JourneyCheck even though it's in the published timetable as offering the full range of services (first class, catering, power points etc) and even though you can make a seat reservation through GWR's booking engine.

And also, where on the GWR website can passengers find out about such planned changes?

[ChrisB]

First, check the pdf  of the timetable on their website to ensure you are looking at the (supposedly) up to date version.

If it still shows that way, and you are getting otherwise different stock, challenge whoever is telling you it's a planned change - as I understand any planned change should be updated in those pdfs.

[charles_uk]

First, check the pdf  of the timetable on their website to ensure you are looking at the (supposedly) up to date version.

If it still shows that way, and you are getting otherwise different stock, challenge whoever is telling you it's a planned change - as I understand any planned change should be updated in those pdfs.

Thank you. Having just downloaded timetable T6 from GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)'s website, the service I was referring to, and two others which immediately spring to mind, all have a black square at the top of the column - "Bike reservations are compulsory. First Class accommodation, seat reservations, Wi-Fi and power points are available"

[ChrisB]

Ahhh....Cotswold Line.

A number of changes have been planned owing to shortage of drivers for the IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train). Therefore a change (no IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) was the planned change), but they could put on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) or a 3car turbo....could be either & hence the reason they haven't changed that pdf - the trains concerned are likely to be substituted from an IEP, to either of those mentioned, or they may find an IET driver as training progresses. It's a fluid situation on that line, until at least the end of March, the CLPG^» (Cotswold Line Promotion Group - about) have been told.

[IndustryInsider]

It's a fluid situation on that line, until at least the end of March, the CLPG^» (Cotswold Line Promotion Group - about) have been told.

It's a mess on that line, and I predict it'll be much longer than the end of March before it's sorted, though it is at least slightly better than it has been over the last couple of weeks.

[ChrisB]

The vast majority of drivers should have passed out by then, so here's hoping.

[charles_uk]

I appreciate it's a mess and that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) is "managing" the situation as best it can, and there is a thread in the London to the Cotswolds sub-forum which is covering a lot of these issues.

I also recognise I've got a bit of a bee in my bonnet about this. (And actually, as I only travel one stop I much prefer a Turbo to an IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) as there's more standing space.) But the main reason for raising this query was that it seems to be known that some services are planned to be Turbos for the short/medium-term rather than the HST^▸ (High Speed Train)/IET promised in the timetable - do GWR actually make this information available to passengers or is it simply a case of "being in the know"?

[grahame]

The vast majority of drivers should have passed out by then ...

I know what you mean - but love the vision outside a rail context!

[ChrisB]

In this particular case, I doubt more than a very few actually know - and then it's subject to change. They' intend to put on the 'best' stock they can. So even if it's booked on a particular day as a turbo, if an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) becomes available, they may send that.

[TaplowGreen]

I wonder why it is that someone has to come to this forum to get answers like this (useful and informative though they are), rather than GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) proactively issuing a communication in order that its customers (especially on the Cotswold line) can understand why the situation is how it is, rather than being kept in the dark?

Communication is a colossal "fail" within GWR.

[grahame]

I wonder why it is that someone has to come to this forum to get answers like this (useful and informative though they are), rather than GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) proactively issuing a communication in order that its customers (especially on the Cotswold line) can understand why the situation is how it is, rather than being kept in the dark?

Communication is a colossal "fail" within GWR.

Because 90% of the customers only want 10% of the answers?   We here are the 10% who seek the 90% - other put their hands over there ears at too much information!

[ChrisB]

I'd up that to at least 95%, Graham....

[TaplowGreen]

I wonder why it is that someone has to come to this forum to get answers like this (useful and informative though they are), rather than GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) proactively issuing a communication in order that its customers (especially on the Cotswold line) can understand why the situation is how it is, rather than being kept in the dark?

Communication is a colossal "fail" within GWR.

Because 90% of the customers only want 10% of the answers?   We here are the 10% who seek the 90% - other put their hands over there ears at too much information!

Graham I'd love to know how you reach that conclusion.

Notwithstanding your loyalty to GWR, it's not only people in this forum who want information - paying customers are entitled to know (for example on the Cotswold Line) why their services are cancelled/shortformed/terminated short day after day and the onus sits firmly with the service provider to inform them.

GWR weren't shy about spouting off about the thousands of extra seats and spending a fortune on twee advertising campaigns making promises that they haven't been able to keep - having raised those expectations, it's now incumbent upon them to explain why they haven't matched them.

The best companies front up when things go wrong, explain why, what they have learned and what they are doing by way of resolution/mitigation, and in that way they gain respect.

I don't see a lot of that from GWR, and think I know who it is that has their hands over their ears.

[ChrisB]

GHenerally I may agree, but which type of train turns up on which day?

Nah, at least 95% won't want to know in advance as long as it's on time & they get a seat, which along the Cotswold Line, they probably would.

[grahame]

I wonder why it is that someone has to come to this forum to get answers like this (useful and informative though they are), rather than GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) proactively issuing a communication in order that its customers (especially on the Cotswold line) can understand why the situation is how it is, rather than being kept in the dark?

Communication is a colossal "fail" within GWR.

Because 90% of the customers only want 10% of the answers?   We here are the 10% who seek the 90% - other put their hands over there ears at too much information!

Graham I'd love to know how you reach that conclusion.

and yet

GHenerally I may agree, but which type of train turns up on which day?

Nah, at least 95% won't want to know in advance as long as it's on time & they get a seat, which along the Cotswold Line, they probably would.

My guestimate comes from talking to people - lots and lots of people over the years - and seeing how far their interest goes when explaining changes, reasons, etc.   If a train is cancelled they want to know what's the alternative (or what's being done for them).  Whether it's a faulty point, lack of crew or an exploding pidgeon is of no consequence to 9 out of 10 - there is a little more engagement if it's 'person hit by train' and more willingness to accept consequential delays.

The engagement with bus users is even more extreme at times.

Notwithstanding your loyalty to GWR, it's not only people in this forum who want information - paying customers are entitled to know (for example on the Cotswold Line) why their services are cancelled/shortformed/terminated short day after day and the onus sits firmly with the service provider to inform them.

GWR weren't shy about spouting off about the thousands of extra seats and spending a fortune on twee advertising campaigns making promises that they haven't been able to keep - having raised those expectations, it's now incumbent upon them to explain why they haven't matched them.

The best companies front up when things go wrong, explain why, what they have learned and what they are doing by way of resolution/mitigation, and in that way they gain respect.

I agree with you.   Doesn't mean that everyone wants to know it all, but that should not stop the information being freely, openly, timoeously and honestly provided where it's easy to find.  Which is rarely the case at present. 

I don't see a lot of that from GWR ...

Perhaps that's why we get such a large number of search engine arrivals at the forum ... it may just be the 5% or 10% who want to know ... but much of it ain't available elsewhere.   As a CRP^▸ (Community Rail Partnership) we hope (often forlornly) to be alerted and informed - but even for us the jungle telegraph of the forum and other sources tells us ... filled when we question things with an email that starts " and firstly my apologies for not informing you ..."; I haven't had one of those since yesterday.

Not all bleak - on that front, even as I write, an incoming email "I just thought I ought to contact you both, regarding our ongoing problems "  ... THANK YOU - you know who you are.