Three different journeys - looking into my options

[whole diary]

[grahame]

I'm planning three (or four) return journeys from Melksham in the next few weeks ... researching tomorrow and Monday.  And it look slike they'll be classic examples of how complicated things can get.   I've got some initial ideas (much from reading here and elsewhere) but would be very interested to hear how others (with timetable and fare qualifications) might tackle them.

In each case, I'll be traveling with heavy luggage - flying not an option, but train, ferry, driving, bus, coach, taxi, SHORT transfer walks are all possible.   Also ... I'm in the 55 to 60 age range, and do not have any railcard.  I'm British / not able to use Britrail.  I'm perfectly happy to sleep in transit on a sleeper train / boat and the extra cost can be offset against an extra night's hotel cost - but I need to arrive fresh, so sitting on a cold platform for a couple of hours in the middle of the night isn't on!

a) I am required to be close to the centre of Oxford from around 08:45 to 17:45 on Thursday, 27th and again on Friday, 28th January. I am undecided whether to make this one trip (i.e. stay over in Oxford overnight) or two; decision will be made based on relative cost and how long and tiring the extra journeys would be.

b) I'm then on the outskirts of Antrim, Northern Ireland, at 08:45 on Tuesday, 1st Feb, and I leave there at 17:45 on Thursday, 3rd.  Would need to be in Antrim centre by 08:00.

c) Finally, the Sulzbach suburb of Frankfurt from Tuesday 15th Feb (08:00) to Thursday 17th Feb (18:00) ... I'll be looking at options for an extra day at one or other end of the trip, and this may be for two people (Lisa's in the same age bracket as I am); hopefully the schedule can be a little more relaxing and not involve too many obnoxious early starts / late arrivals.

Finally (!) I've been looking at a possible March trip to Nebraska or New Jersey - whole different ballgame; when the enquiry becomes more serious and I know where / which state, I may cast for views

[Mookiemoo]

Well if it ends up being nebraska - you can forget amtrak

I think its one of the states no trains go through at all!

[Worcester_Passenger]

For the Antrim trip I suggest that you look at the DFDS (formerly Norfolk Lines) ferry from "Liverpool" to Belfast at http://www.norfolkline.com/EN/Irish_Sea_Ferries/Belfast_Liverpool/. An 8-hour overnight crossing and so longer than the Stranraer crossings, but it does allow you to get a night's sleep.

I say "Liverpool" because, rather like Ryanair, what they actually mean is Birkenhead. The 12 Quays Terminal is miles from anywhere. If you've got serious luggage, then I'd do a taxi from Liverpool Lime St through the tunnel rather than faff about with MerseyRail's local train (and another taxi on the Birkenhead side).

I've travelled with them on their Dublin - Birkenhead route. The accommodation is fine. At one stage they used to offer an inclusive price for BB&EM, but they seem to be charging for food now. Not that the food's that wonderful - this crossing is mainly for lorries and the offering reflects this (which does make for a big breakfast).

On the Dublin route they won't let you walk onto the ferry on your own. Instead you're driven on in a people-carrier. That's fine in the evening, but in the morning they have to have moved quite a lot of the lorries before the people-carrier can come and collect you. You just have to be patient.

And on the Dublin route, you arrive rather early. I haven't looked at what time it gets into Belfast. Since you need to be in Antrim at 08:45, that may not be such an issue. But I can tell you that Birkenhead at 06:00 leaves something to be desired - though the taxi will turn up promptly and whisk you off to Lime St, not having anything else to do at that hour.

Cheaper offerings on the Irish Sea ferries are to be found at http://www.sailrail.co.uk/, where you should find that you can look for a Melksham - Antrim through ticket. But for some mad reason, you can't book it - that has to be done at a railway ticket office. But those cheap fares only work on the short crossings - Fishguard, Holyhead and Stranraer.

Meanwhile, for Frankfurt, I'd look at the Harwich - Hook route operated by Stena, at http://www.stenaline.co.uk/ferry/routes/. Big ferries. Overnight crossings. Not just lorries, so a 'proper' restaurant. And a simple train-to-ship walk transfer at each end - though these do involve long ramps, so I hope your luggage has wheels. Trains from Hook to Rotterdam every 30 minutes.

Stena have a cheap train-ship-train ticket so that you can travel from anywhere in East Anglia (including Liverpool St) to anywhere in the Netherlands for ^34. See http://www.stenaline.co.uk/ferry/rail-and-sail/holland/. Then you'd only need a ticket from the Dutch frontier station (Venlo?) to Frankfurt.

[Worcester_Passenger]

Sorry - the train-ship-train ticket on Harwich - Hook is just the travel component. You have to pay extra for the cabin and the restaurant.

[Worcester_Passenger]

Well if it ends up being nebraska - you can forget amtrak

I think its one of the states no trains go through at all!

Nebraska is indeed served by Amtrak - it's Wyoming and South Dakota that aren't. Try the 'Route Atlas' at http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Content_C&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1241245660945.

[Mookiemoo]

I stand corrected - visited my friends in laws in nebraska once - shows hoe memorable it was.....

And since there is nothing in nebraska other than in omaha (Kansas is ranked 50th out of 50 states of things to do - Nebraska is 49th) - its likely the destination is omaha!

[eightf48544]

For Frankfurt I'd look at Eurostar and ICE3 not Thalys unless you like TGVs^▸ (Train a Grande Vitesse) from Brussells.

The only snag is a longish wait a Brussells Midi not the most salbreous station keep your wallet zipped up.

I have been told that by putting suitable stopovers and possibly a destination beyond Frankfurt in the DB^» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) website it is possible to get a cheap around 50 Euro single all the way from St Pancras to Franfurt and beyond but i've never found it. Then a London International ticket from Melksham to allow you travel in the peak.

[grahame]

For Antrim ... yes, I probable to favour the Birkenhead (Liverpoolish) to Belfast(ish) boat - although the site you gave, Worcester_Passenger, didn't offer that route to me ... and when I chose a different ferry route it gave me a fare of 0.00, assured me there were no extras, and told me to look at the rail company timetables for times!   I like the price - what code to I quote to a rail ticket office to get it 

Last time I did Antrim, I ended up with a very split ticket ... (1) Home to Bath by bus (2) Bath to Chester rail ticket (3) Chester to Hamilton Square rail ticket (4) DFDS fare (5) Taxi, Belfast docks to bus station and (6) Bus fare to Antrim.   On way back it there was a 7th element, taxi in Birkenhead to Hamilton Square as by then I realised just how far it was from the ferry to the station.   And the seven costs add up ... I'm tempted by the same route,  but the Bath to Chester ticket I used isn't available this spring and it might just be easier to drive to Birkenhead and park on the quayside.  DFDS site gives parking costs for Harwich and Newcastle, but not for Birkenhead though!

I note - in the last couple of days - an announcement that Birkenhead to Dublin is closing:
http://www.bristolwired.co.uk/news.php/122460-Ferry-firm-DFDS-to-ditch-Birkenhead-and-Heysham-routes
http://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/news/8791854.200_jobs_to_go_as_Birkenhead_to_Dublin_ferry_service_is_scrapped/
Will that effect the Belfastish boat?

For Frankfurt, Harwich / Hook looks like it might be a good option - I'll investigate that with others.  Again, I have used that boat in the past but not for many, many years as a rail / foot passenger.

USA ... too early to do anything but muse / dream.   But 05:14 from Omaha on the California Zephyr looks like an early start even for me.

[willc]

Graham, not entirely sure why you couldn't get a fare for Liverpool-Belfast, as I've got fares quoted just now via the link to the DFDS/Norfolk Line site given by Worcester Passenger. Seems to be a flat rate of ^40 for a foot passenger, with a cabin ^50 extra each way, plus a ^16 fuel surcharge, so ^196 for a round trip departing either Jan 30 or 31 from Liverpool and returning on Feb 3. If you take the car on the boat, you get the cabin 'free', though obviously pay more for the car. This link should take you straight to the booking page http://www.norfolkline.com/ferry/GetQuote.aspx?route=1343

DFDS are pulling out of the Irish Sea. They have apparently sold the Liverpool-Belfast route to Stena but quite when the handover will happen isn't clear. Mentioned here among other changes on Irish Sea routes http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2010/12/20/35589/stena+shuts+loss-making+larne+service.html

PS: DB^» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about)'s website will also give you London-Frankfurt journeys via Paris, where with a short walk from Gare du Nord to Gare de L'Est you can get an ICE running on the TGV^▸ (Train a Grande Vitesse) Est line direct to Frankfurt Hbf. The 08.55 Eurostar from London gets into Gare du Nord at 12.17 and an ICE leaves Gare de l'Est at 13.08, arriving Frankfurt at 16.58. In the opposite direction, there's an 09.01 from Frankfurt, giving a 15.26 London arrival. They don't give fares online, so you would probably have to ring DB UK^▸ (United Kingdom).

[eightf48544]

Thanks for reminding me about Frankfurt via Paris. Caught those very trains you mention for the Plandampf last Easter although we only went as far as Saarbrucken. There is a quite cheap Advanced fare (limited aavailability) on the Paris Frankfurt Stretch. Paris Est is probably better than Brusells Midi to wait.
Resonable trundle with wheeld suitecase down hill on way out it's not worth doing the Metro by the time you've found it and got out the other end you could have walked it.

it's just I like doing 198k in an hour between Cologne and Frankfurt flughafen.

[Tim]

Travelled Birkenhead-Belfast last year (with the car) and the crossing was fine.  The ferry isn't luxary cruise standard but food was Ok and service friendly and cabins basic but comfortable and fairly spacious (and a high proportion with windows).  I seem to remember the fare was rather reasonable.

[grahame]

Filling you in, Folks.   I drove Oxford and stayed up there - Simply no way of getting up and back by public transport in time on the first morning (it was pretty awful on the A34 / road on the way up, mind you!)

Antrim - I set off tomorrow, train to Birkenhead and ferry to Belfast.   Frankfurt - All booked via the Harwich - Hook route (thanks for the useful tips there) and with a spectacular range of different types of train on to my final destination.  Nebraska - not happening; in our business, the further away an enquiry comes from, the less likely it is to lead to business (exception - training enquires from within Melksham rarely bring business, but that's another story  )