Suggestions for later services on the Cotswolds Line

[whole diary]

[Richard Fairhurst]

That's a terrific idea and worth the CLPG^» (Cotswold Line Promotion Group - about) and the Customer Panel putting to FGW^▸ (First Great Western), I'd have thought. (Saturday, too, would be good, engineering possessions permitting.)

[ChrisB]

You could choose either the 22:49 from Paddington going on from Oxford at 23:55, Hanborough at 00:04 and Charlbury 00:12 (return ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) at 00:15 to clear the branch and allow Ascott signalbox to close at 00:30ish).

Or the 23:20 going on from Oxford at 00:30 calling at Hanborough 00:38 and Charlbury 00:46 (return ECS at 00:50 to clear the branch and allow Ascott signalbox to close around 01:15).

I'd pick the latter - as getting to PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) for the former at 2249 would be very tight, whether you are at the theatre or a concert. They rarely finish before 2230....

[willc]

I really can't see a 23.20 departure from London being feasible. The occasional theatre-going habits of people living 70-odd miles from London are not going to cut much ice with the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) and for doing almost anything else in London a 22.49 departure is plenty late enough - and round about the time I think most people have in mind when they say a later Cotswold Line train should run.

Any later train would not just be about getting back from London, it would be just as much, if not more so, about getting back from Oxford - indeed the numbers joining there would arguably make or break the notion.

While it is possible at present to make the 22.52 Cotswold Line departure after a show or play in Oxford ending at 10.30pm-ish by making a swift exit and heading straight to the station, a 23.52 from Oxford (22.49 from Paddington) would offer the chance for a post-show drink before heading home and an hour seems like a reasonable allowance for that, but ask people to wait 90 minutes, past midnight, and I suspect the last S3 bus or a taxi would win the argument most times, especially when you get dropped rather nearer your front door than Charlbury station.

[Richard Fairhurst]

The thread about late-night services from Paddington to Henley reminded me of this thread.

Now that the redoubling has settled down, it seems to me that II's suggestion would be a good speculative extension for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) (or the new franchisee) to consider - i.e. extending the 22.48 Paddington-Oxford to Hanborough and Charlbury - like the 07.15 in reverse. It currently arrives at Oxford at 23.56, just as the last up train off the Cotswold Line is passing Wolvercote.

I'm pretty sure it would be a popular service. But the good people of this board will know much more than me about the practicalities of it. Would extending Ascott signal-box's hours be a blocker? Or would the need to find a guard for a service that may have worked DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) from Paddington kill it? Any enlightenment welcome.

[IndustryInsider]

I'm pretty sure it would be a popular service. But the good people of this board will know much more than me about the practicalities of it. Would extending Ascott signal-box's hours be a blocker? Or would the need to find a guard for a service that may have worked DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) from Paddington kill it? Any enlightenment welcome.

It might extend their hours slightly, and sourcing a guard would be a little awkward as whether it was a Reading or Worcester based guard they would miss the last train home, unless the Turbo then went ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) from Charlbury to Reading in which case they could travel on it?

[Richard Fairhurst]

Interesting. There's an 00.27 stopper from Oxford to Paddington. A 23.58 from Oxford to Charlbury, returning ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) to Oxford, could get back in time for that (maybe give or take retiming it a couple of minutes later) and take the guard back to Reading...

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

As the CLPG^» (Cotswold Line Promotion Group - about) rep for Hanborough this is a common theme I receive comments on. Any number of Hanborough rail users complain that when visiting London for a show they can only get back to Oxford by train and have to get a taxi back from Oxford to Hanborough. Alternatively, people drive from Hanborough into Oxford to start their outward journey to London so that when returning to Oxford they can drive straight home. Other drive to Thornhill Park & Ride so that the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) gets no fare revenue but instead Oxford Bus or Stagecoach get the fare income thus making their late night coach services more financially viable. The coach journey takes twice as long as the train but at weekends people are prepared to accept a longer journey time by coach.
What I do wonder is how many people actually make this journey to make running a train back to Charlbury viable financially. The people I have spoken to on this matter only make this journey occasionally.

[ChrisB]

Realistically, it would only be warranted on Fridays / Saturdays, I reckon.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Andrew - have dropped you a line by e-mail!

[Richard Fairhurst]

Is the Cotswold Line now open 24/7? (Subject to weekend engineering, of course.)

RealTimeTrains is showing a "runs as required" overnight freight. I'm hopeful that there might be other calls on the signalmen at late hours too.

[IndustryInsider]

There's been a few extra services recently, usually ballast trains and the like with their forgiving loading gauge.  I'm guessing they're services that would normally be routed via the Harbury Tunnel line and so will soon cease.

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

I wonder who pays for the costs of keeping the Cotswold Line open over night for a few freight trains. Presumably NR^» (Network Rail - home page) does but does not charge the extra costs to the freight operators as the only need has arisen because of the unavailability of the usual line at Harbury. Looking back over this thread Richard F ssuggests CLPG^» (Cotswold Line Promotion Group - about) ask for some form of late evening service. This has been raised on several occasions with FGW^▸ (First Great Western) but the usual response is that the line closes at midnight and it would not be economic to extend the line opening time for a service with likely limited use.

60 years ago I lived in Somerset (Bridgwater) and we often had trips to London on a Saturday, sightseeing by day and a theatre visit at night. We used to catch the 23.50 newspaper train back home, arriving around 04.15. This train was a single train weekdays but on Saturdays there was so much demand that a relief train operated at midnight missing out a number of stops made by the regular and overtaking the regular at Reading. This special terminated at Bristol. Both trains were well used with standing on both to as far as Reading or Didcot and lots getting off at Didcot for a 01.00 connection (or thereabouts) to Oxford.With Paddington so far out from the west end theatrical area, you could not rely on getting back to Paddington until about 23.30 after a 22.30 or 22.45 show finish. On at least one occasion I recall getting back just in time to see the 23.50 departing. However the platform staff told us to get on the midnight relief, get off at Bristol and board the 23.50 that was then running about 10 minutes behind the special having been overtaken at Reading. Of course traffic modes have changed enormously in the last 50-60 years with cars and coaches speeding up and down the M5 and M4 taking most of the original rail traffic and I wonder whether how many people would actually now use a late evening Cotswold Line train from Paddington.

[IndustryInsider]

I wonder whether how many people would actually now use a late evening Cotswold Line train from Paddington.

If they ran one as a trial we would find out!

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

"If they ran one as a trial we would find out!"
That is the difference between FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and Chiltern. Chiltern is prepared to try out services but FGW usually wants a guaranteed subsidy to avoid it possibly making a loss on such experimental services so niothing happens.

[Richard Fairhurst]

I wouldn't be quite so sure. Perhaps the imminent arrival of Oxford Parkway, and services like this one, will focus minds a little on the prospects for the Cotswold Line...