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Author Topic: MKIII coaches. Convert spare Buffets to Trailer Standards?  (Read 11029 times)
adc82140
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« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2010, 17:00:08 »

According to the lists at thejunction.org.uk there are three HST (High Speed Train) Coach "A"s rotting away at Long Marston. Given that these were originally standard HST coaches, it surely wouldn't take much to convert them back. Then that would already be half a set of mark 3's sorted.
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« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2010, 22:07:37 »


Maybe they as well as many others have missed the boat. Was it not the fact that First owned some hst's that helped them ot win the Great Western franchise so osning extra stock to increase capacity could be the deal maker when it's re-letting he franchise time

First Group directly own 12 power cars (I think). I can just see the look on the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) faces when First hold them to ransom.
Sorry, you what, we've lost FGW (First Great Western)? Fine we'll take our power cars with us and dump them in storage somewhere.
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« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2010, 23:06:12 »

The answer I got back from my contact at Chiltern basically states that yes, they've been looking at acquiring Mark III stock from a variety of sources, but can't confirm on the IE ones specifically - So I guess they're still currently available.

It is confirmed that the IE stock has powered doors already fitted.....

I had heard that the IE stock is not DDA» (Disability Discrimination Act - about) compliant in this country.  The doors not wide enough.
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« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2010, 00:06:10 »

The answer I got back from my contact at Chiltern basically states that yes, they've been looking at acquiring Mark III stock from a variety of sources, but can't confirm on the IE ones specifically - So I guess they're still currently available.

It is confirmed that the IE stock has powered doors already fitted.....

I had heard that the IE stock is not DDA» (Disability Discrimination Act - about) compliant in this country.  The doors not wide enough.

Next it will be that it needs an internal PIS (Passenger Information System) in it.
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« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2010, 00:56:11 »

I think there's a DDA» (Disability Discrimination Act - about) differentiation between a refresh and a refurb, in my old FSR (First Scot Rail) days the class 322s had a refresh which provided a wheel chair space but not an accessible toilet.
I'd imagine the amount of work needed on the IE mark IIIs would be pretty much a bare metal strip down.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2010, 09:42:18 »

I had heard that the IE stock is not DDA» (Disability Discrimination Act - about) compliant in this country.  The doors not wide enough.

Wouldn't matter as it's not a new coach build. Grandfathers rights would apply.
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smokey
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« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2010, 14:06:08 »

According to the lists at thejunction.org.uk there are three HST (High Speed Train) Coach "A"s rotting away at Long Marston. Given that these were originally standard HST coaches, it surely wouldn't take much to convert them back. Then that would already be half a set of mark 3's sorted.

I've got a feeling that HST TGS (Coach A on FGW (First Great Western)) were built as additonal Vehicles to increase 2 + 7 to 2 + 8 and as such were NEVER standard Coaches
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dog box
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« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2010, 18:07:17 »

although built later a number of TGS vehicles have been converted namely 82/84/92 95/99 to TS spec...and as for the vehicles rotting away at long marston these are stored for use by Grand Central and presumably are spoken for
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broadgage
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« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2010, 09:59:47 »

How much work and cost to strip out the spare MkIII buffets and replace with seating?
I imagine one of the major challenges would be putting in windows where there are currently no or small windows in the buffet area without compromising the body work.

Might it be worth fitting seats, but not windows ?
Should be cheap and simple, and although the lack of windows is a backward step, it would apply to a small number of seats over the whole train.

The coach with limited windows should be the one with at seat entertainment, as this reduces the desire to look out of windows.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2010, 10:22:25 »

But how many people actually use the Volo screens? Not many, judging by walking through Coach D or past it on a platform.

But there may very well be serious structural issues with adding more/bigger windows. Indeed there's a letter in October's Modern Railways which says that those half-screens mid-way along Mk3 interiors do in fact have a structural role - but looks like no-one told whoever designed FGW (First Great Western)'s refresh...
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The SprinterMeister
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« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2010, 11:20:57 »

But how many people actually use the Volo screens? Not many, judging by walking through Coach D or past it on a platform.

But there may very well be serious structural issues with adding more/bigger windows. Indeed there's a letter in October's Modern Railways which says that those half-screens mid-way along Mk3 interiors do in fact have a structural role - but looks like no-one told whoever designed FGW (First Great Western)'s refresh...

Redundant buffet cars have been converted into ordinary trailers previously. Two were converted to Trailer Firsts as insurance replacements for the two leading coaches destroyed at Southall.

I understand FGW consulted the surviving members of the team that designed the Mk3's and confirmed that although the mid car screens in each trailer were supported on frames welded in at the construction stage they were not critical to the design of the vehicle or its strength. In any case they would only provide very  limited stiffness in terms of bodyside movement when trains pass each other and would not affect the ability to withstand vertical loading or bending. Or buckling of the shell in a rollover / collision situation.

On the class 156 Mk4 derived shell the mid car partitions are structural to the coach.

The question of structural integrity on buffet cars depends on what longitudenal 'top hat' sections are present underneath the skin and below the window line of the small windows. And whether the bodywork can cope with their removal. Obviously the bending loads are less with standard trailer vehicles than with buffet cars with most of the catering equipment weight in the middle of each coach. I understand as much as anything the electrical systems are as great if not a greater problem than making the bodyside wiindows larger.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 11:27:04 by The SprinterMeister » Logged

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The SprinterMeister
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« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2010, 11:31:35 »

I've got a feeling that HST (High Speed Train) TGS (Coach A on FGW (First Great Western)) were built as additonal Vehicles to increase 2 + 7 to 2 + 8 and as such were NEVER standard Coaches
Correct. There was some shuffling of trailers around at the time as well but the TGS 44xxx series was new build and not converted from existing HST trailers.
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