Campaign for Tavistock reopening

[whole diary]

[woody]

As has been mentioned already I can see capacity becoming a big issue very quickly after re-opening despite the new station being a mile from the town centre as I think it will still be a very attractive alternative for commuters and shoppers wanting to avoid the nightmare commute into Plymouth city centre.Even now it still makes me cringe that the LSWR^▸ (London South Western Railway) main line from Plymouth to Tavistock indeed onto Okhampton/Exeter was closed at all in 1968.

[34104]

Yes 34104. West Country Class Bere Alston. Very apt

I could not agree with you more. The housing and small amounts (relatively) to be sorted and much more could be achieved.

The Political will must change. I have no idea of your age but can you imagine the price of fuel in 10 or 20 years time?

Totnes has a large catchment area, including most of the South Hams, Kingsbridge and Salcombe to name but a few large places.Tavistock of course has Launceston and Princetown.

I agree that the reopening is very much a long term project.

Reopening the line as far as Tavistock is at least a start.

I retire in 23 years. I hope to be alive to see a Westcountry Pacific crossing Meldon Viaduct......oh to dream!

I'm 51 and the current cost of fuel is bad enough,could be impossibly high in a few years time,maybe driving will be a luxury rather than the staple diet.

34104 was indeed Bere Alston.My grandfather was station master there from 1945-1966,i spent a fair bit of my childhood staying at the station and can just about remember the expresses,inevitably with a Bulleid pacific in charge,thundering through.I've got a photo of my grandfather being presented with the nameplate of 34104,which he accepted on behalf of the village after she was scrapped,it resided in the parish hall for many years,not sure where it is now though-probably in safe keeping these days,very valuable item.

The closure of the line was,of course,an utterly absurd decision,particularly in leaving Tavistock without trains.The line was actually still well used until the old trick of making the timetable as inconvenient as possible came into play and traffic was seemingly deliberately run down in order to facilitate closure.They were very bitter days and my grandfather loathed the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)/Western Region until the day he died.I'm very convinced that Tavistock could easily support a main line station even more so in the present day,the Tamar valley line has thrived over the past few years and there is no reason why Tavvy shouldn't do so to an even greater extent.Here's hoping that the current scheme is successful and,in time,leads to further development of potentially a very fine transport facility.

[anthony215]

Just a quick question about this line, if the full route was re-opened between Tavistock & Okehampton  how long would the journey time be?

[34104]

The section between Tavistock and Okehampton was scheduled to take about 25 minutes back in steam days.The complete line between Exeter and Plymouth was slightly longer and slower than the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) main line through Dawlish,by about 5 minutes.Given that the journey time between Plymouth and Exeter is generally about one hour on the GWR line now,it would probably be fair to say that the Southern line would be about 65 minutes.Whether modern engineering techniques and traction could improve that figure,i don't really know.The Southern line was heavily graded from Plymouth to Okehampton,naturally enough as it went from sea level to a fairly high location on Dartmoor,so maybe modern traction would make a difference.

[trainbuff]

I believe that timings in steam days also were much slower than present on the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) route due to the banks at Rattery,Hemerdon and Dainton!

It is definitely feasible to increase the speed of the Southern route from what it was in steam days. Journey times could be comparable to the western route.

There would probably still be slacks at Meldon (for obvious reasons concerning the structure) but with less stops between Tavistock and Okehampton the running time could definitely be reduced.

Just working out with average speeds of 60mph or so trains could pass with a loop at Bere Alston, and if the junction at Crediton were moved back to Coleford, creating a dynamic loop. Trains could leave Exeter at xx50 and Plymouth at xx20, not far off XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) or SWT^▸ (South West Trains), times and still enable passing on the dynamic loop between Crediton and Coleford and also at Bere Alston and if speed could be raised still higher a loop at Okehampton could help. This would not interfere with Branch operations to Gunny or Barnstaple.

I think that railways will come back into favour. They already are. Look at the increase in passenger numbers, not just on long haul, but also on the Branches. If we ever get out of this financial crisis then political will may have to be adjusted to meet the needs of ordinary people who can no longer afford private cars.

[34104]

Titbit time.I was advised by a friend last weekend that some activity was taking place on the section of line between Tavistock and Bere Alston.I duly took a look today at Gawton Bridge,on the main road between the two places.There was a chap there who seemed to be carrying out some sort of work on the pointing of the brickwork on the bridge-it looked like he was using a small brush to sweep away debris [possibly] between the bricks,wasn't really quite sure what he was doing.He obviously had access to the line,because there was a dumper truck parked on the trackbed by the bridge.Interesting,because i don't think anybody would be interested in the brickwork on an old railway bridge if it was just going to be left to nature or converted into a cycle path/walkway.I thought that Kilbride had already completed a preliminary inspection on all the bridges-maybe this is part of the work needed to start bringing the bridges up to standard.I'll keep an eye out for any further activity.

[paul7575]

British Railways Board (Residuary) employ contractors to survey and maintain the safety of disused structures such as you describe, where they have not been transferred to another authority.  It might just be one of their people...

Paul

[vacman]

As for the timings of the southern route, looking at the 1966 timetable the journey time was around 2 hours! admittedly all were stopping trains but were in the hands of DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s so accelaration and braking would be quite good, and there don't appear to be any big layovers anywhere either, so it was quite a lot slower than the GW^▸ (Great Western) route.

[Chris from Nailsea]

It might just be one of their people...

... or someone else, nicking a few bricks ... 

[34104]

As for the timings of the southern route, looking at the 1966 timetable the journey time was around 2 hours! admittedly all were stopping trains but were in the hands of DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s so accelaration and braking would be quite good, and there don't appear to be any big layovers anywhere either, so it was quite a lot slower than the GW^▸ (Great Western) route.

Ah,yes,the 1966 timetable.Basically,as i mentioned above,there were all sorts of manouvres in that era which seemed to be designed to make the line as unappealing as possible- in other words,the powers that be wanted to get as much evidence as possible,obtained by whatever means,to facilitate closure of the line.The line was progressively run down from 1964 onwards,the only real link with what went before was the through train to Brighton,which ran until the closure of the line in 1968.To counter your 1966 timetable,i have a book by O.S.Nock detailing a run from Exeter to Plymouth in 1954,where the scheduled time was 89 minutes with stops at Crediton,Okehampton,Tavistock and Bere Alston but which was actually achieved in 79 minutes.When operating at it's optimum,the Southern line was about 5-10 minutes slower than the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) route,thats all.

[34104]

It might just be one of their people...

... or someone else, nicking a few bricks ... 

Hope not-the road journey between Bere and Tavvy could get very interesting over the next few days if so!

[trainbuff]

Yes. at that time it was only a few minutes slower. With modern equipment and even better acceleration and braking on modern units I believe that comparable, or nearly comparable times could be achieved.

As I have said before, I believe if speed were at 60-65mph, and stopping at Bere Alsto, Tavistock, Okehampton and Crediton the joutney could be done in arond 65 minutes. not bad for a secondary/diversionary route. If speed could be raised to 80mph, achievable in many places then times would be truly competitive.

Just to make a point about the Brickwork mentioned. I believe that BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) Residuary has already sold the trackbed to either West Devon Council or Devon county council. This was a key part of the reopening plans. Certainly both Shillamill Tunnel and viaduct are now owned by them. I do believe that a cycle track is part of the plan and that would mean that they would be responsoble for the upkeep.

Killbride are preparing the transport and Works Act Order presently. This is to enable the remaining pockets of land to be compulsory purchased.

I took a walk over the summer....I am sure we had a good couple of days somewhere...from just after Bere Alston where the road crosses the line, and walked up to the Tunnel. This was maybe 2 miles or so I guess. It looked like fencing had been erected for a cycle path.


I would therefore guess that the person checking the brickwork was either from the Council, or less likely, from a contractor for Killbride.

[34104]

DCC^» (Devon County Council - website) did indeed buy some of the trackbed from the Tavistock end onwards,i'm not sure if it was as far as Gawton Bridge,i think it was,because a couple of years ago the trackbed was cleared further towards Bere Alston after this bridge,to a point where i think landowners were reluctant to sell at Tuckermarsh.This would suggest that DCC were behind this clearance-it was started at Tavistock,prior to this just about the entire line was impenetrable.I had a quick look at the bridge this pm-it certainly looks,to my admittedly untrained eye,as if new cement [or whatever material is used] has been used to infill pointing at the top of the bridge.I'll check again tomorrow and ask the guy,if he's there,what the purpose of the work is.

[trainbuff]

DCC^» (Devon County Council - website) did indeed buy some of the trackbed from the Tavistock end onwards,i'm not sure if it was as far as Gawton Bridge,i think it was,because a couple of years ago the trackbed was cleared further towards Bere Alston after this bridge,to a point where i think landowners were reluctant to sell at Tuckermarsh.This would suggest that DCC were behind this clearance-it was started at Tavistock,prior to this just about the entire line was impenetrable.I had a quick look at the bridge this pm-it certainly looks,to my admittedly untrained eye,as if new cement [or whatever material is used] has been used to infill pointing at the top of the bridge.I'll check again tomorrow and ask the guy,if he's there,what the purpose of the work is.


Much appreciated 34104. When I get the chance i must pop up and see what is going on too

[RichardB]

I think it is simply that these lines were all seen as dead losses and that they were to be operated as cheaply as possible before being closed.  The powers that be simply weren't prepared to allocate more units and crews.

Plymouth - Gunnislake was a very early reprieve - in 1964 - and this was a key element in allowing the Tavistock closure to go ahead.   

All seems mad now but officialdom, both in the railways and Government back then really did think all the lines listed in the Beeching Report were complete no-hopers.

It could have been worse - the viaducts in Tavistock were only saved from demolition because of the cost of doing so and because West Devon Borough Council then took them over.  If they had gone in the 1970s, any hope of one day reopening Tavistock - Okehampton would have disappeared for ever.  A very close run thing.