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The SprinterMeister
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« Reply #75 on: July 16, 2010, 18:42:33 » |
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Scenario 2 - You are driving along at high speed and you suddenly see the line ahead is blocked; you hit the EMG plunger, Put the MC to OFF, anything that might help in the panic and then take cover. Train Wire 12 is now de-energised, you hit the obstruction at 110 in an uncontrolled slide rather than 75 with all the WSPs behind you doing their job. I can't remember ever putting the F&R to off as an emergency measure in 21 years of driving. Moving the F&R while the traction unit was moving was at one time a Form 1 offence. I cannot think of an occasion why a driver would want to do so in all honesty. It wouldnt increase the brake effort so it is to all intents and purposes a somewhat pointless thing to do, particularly if you have been briefed that by doing so you could disable the WSP system on the train. |
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Sprog
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« Reply #76 on: July 16, 2010, 19:03:57 » |
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. I cannot think of an occasion why a driver would want to do so in all honesty. It wouldnt increase the brake effort so it is to all intents and purposes a somewhat pointless thing to do, particularly if you have been briefed that by doing so you could disable the WSP system on the train.
Panic!? And, to enable the Inergen Fire bottles to discharge, as instructed on the label next to the Fire Override Plunger on the cab desk! |
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The SprinterMeister
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« Reply #77 on: July 16, 2010, 20:07:59 » |
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Panic!?
And, to enable the Inergen Fire bottles to discharge, as instructed on the label next to the Fire Override Plunger on the cab desk!
Is it normal to want to discharge the Innergen Bottles on a HST▸ that is actually moving? Surely the drill is to bring it to a stop in a suitable location and deal with the situation once the train has stopped. If you move the F&R to off it will of course stop, no doubt somewhere totally unsuitable. I can't see a driver wanting to twiddle the F&R in an emergency somehow not even in a panic in all honesty. Although I'm waiting for ' 57604' to rise to the occasion...  |
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JayMac
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« Reply #78 on: July 16, 2010, 21:27:25 » |
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For those of us less gen'd up on terminology, can we have a plain English explanation for 'Innergen Bottles' and 'F&R'. Ta. |
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"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
- Sir Terry Pratchett.
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The SprinterMeister
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« Reply #79 on: July 16, 2010, 21:40:54 » |
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For those of us less gen'd up on terminology, can we have an explanation for 'Innergen Bottles' and 'F&R'. Ta. 'Innergen' is the fire extingishant / suppressant carried in large bottles in the luggage section of the power car. As the rear power car is normally unmanned the Innergen bottles will normally discharge automatically in the event of a fire in the rear power car. The engine will also shut down and the firebell will ring in both cabs. The front power car system is disabled from automatic operation of the Innergen fire bottles by the driver as it will not operate with the 'F&R' away from 'Off'. 'F&R' being the forward and reverse master switch / control which requires a master key inserted into it to unlock it from the 'off' position. It therefore follows that the Innergen sytem can be made to work automatically or by means of the buttons inside and outside the cab once the Master switch is turned to 'off'. I think I am basically right with the Innergen part, HSTs▸ were not fitted with it when I last drove them in 1994. |
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JayMac
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« Reply #80 on: July 16, 2010, 21:49:33 » |
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Thanks, SprinterMeister. Always learning........  |
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"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
- Sir Terry Pratchett.
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smithy
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« Reply #81 on: July 17, 2010, 11:20:54 » |
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Scenario 2 - You are driving along at high speed and you suddenly see the line ahead is blocked; you hit the EMG plunger, Put the MC to OFF, anything that might help in the panic and then take cover. Train Wire 12 is now de-energised, you hit the obstruction at 110 in an uncontrolled slide rather than 75 with all the WSPs behind you doing their job. I can't remember ever putting the F&R to off as an emergency measure in 21 years of driving. Moving the F&R while the traction unit was moving was at one time a Form 1 offence. I cannot think of an occasion why a driver would want to do so in all honesty. It wouldnt increase the brake effort so it is to all intents and purposes a somewhat pointless thing to do, particularly if you have been briefed that by doing so you could disable the WSP system on the train.the only time i can see the F&R would be switched off in panic/emergency is if the brake handle came off/broke but i stress extremely unlikely.cannot hink of any other time you could possibly need to do it. as for setting innergen bottles off if i were driving there is no way i would set them off on move i would bring train to stand first at a suitable location,i.e not on viaduct etc. but not being a hst man i am not totally aware of the fire system set up so could well be wrong as to the procedure |
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Sprog
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« Reply #82 on: July 17, 2010, 12:50:29 » |
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Inergen is a fire supressent as already stated. It is an inert gas that replaces the oxygen in the engine room and thus acts to starve the fire. It is potentially harmful to human, but only from perlonged exposure.
It replaced the previous fire system fitted to the power cars when built called 'Halon', and this workled by releasing a gas onto the fire, which via a chemcial reaction, removed the oxygen from the air and whilst it was a highly effective system, it was leathal and was also damging to the Ozone.
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The SprinterMeister
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« Reply #83 on: July 17, 2010, 21:47:28 » |
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the only time i can see the F&R would be switched off in panic/emergency is if the brake handle came off/broke but i stress extremely unlikely.cannot hink of any other time you could possibly need to do it. The possibility of Brake handle breakage or of the handle becoming jammed is presumably why there is an emergency brake plunger (which opens the air train pipe to atmosphere) situated on the HST▸ driving desk a short distance from the brake handle. |
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57604
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« Reply #84 on: July 18, 2010, 16:24:16 » |
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Sorry you're right,
I know. Wonderful....so vein......! Really, without causing any undue panic, it is abit an oversight really, as the old fail-safe system has been replaced with one which is obviously less so. So should power to train wire 12 be lost for any reason (i.e. dislodged or disconnected 36-way, CCB trip either end, Master Switch to OFF either by error or unsolicited) you potentially massively extend the braking distance of the train. Scenario 1 - You are running along and the train hits some bulky debris on the line, this knocks out the 36-way jumper and the driver applies the anchors. The debris was dropped by a train ahead of you which also stopped quickly because of a sudden fault. Your train is now in an uncontrolled slide heading towards the back of the stationary train. Scenario 2 - You are driving along at high speed and you suddenly see the line ahead is blocked; you hit the EMG plunger, Put the MC to OFF, anything that might help in the panic and then take cover. Train Wire 12 is now de-energised, you hit the obstruction at 110 in an uncontrolled slide rather than 75 with all the WSPs behind you doing their job. Scenario 3 - You suffer an onboard fire whilst on the move. For the Fire Supression system in a powercar to function, the MC has to be in the OFF position. Granted, the Inergen will not discharge until the set speed falls below 6mph, but upon hearing the firebells, the Driver may instinctivley operate the EMG plunger and shut the desk down. Weeeeeeeeeeeee off we go into a slide.... Just a little bit of a design flaw!!! Vain.... The Westinghouse WSP system is a lot better than what went before, both in terms of operation and fault finding, and any random bizarre sequences of rare events you can dream up are probably outweighed by the systems more day to day usefulness. It's not as a if a train with no working WSP is not actually braking now is it? And what about the old WSP units that required the train air brake pipe to have pressure in it to turn on? What happened if the driver put the brake into emergency or the brake pipe split? Oh yes..... |
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« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 19:49:16 by 57604 »
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The SprinterMeister
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« Reply #85 on: July 18, 2010, 22:19:22 » |
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And what about the old WSP units that required the train air brake pipe to have pressure in it to turn on? What happened if the driver put the brake into emergency or the brake pipe split? Oh yes.....
Wasn't that some mod BR▸ did as a result of the Colwich Jn job where it was said WSP activity on the Mk3's extended the ground run of the SPADing Manchester train into the path of the oncoming Liverpool - Euston train? |
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dmutony
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« Reply #86 on: July 21, 2010, 13:08:05 » |
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43043 is currently in the wheel lathe at spm for tyre turning there is a possibility it will be moved to brush by rail as it costs a fortune to move it by road!!!
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« Last Edit: July 22, 2010, 12:07:55 by dmutony »
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The SprinterMeister
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« Reply #87 on: July 24, 2010, 04:16:14 » |
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43043 is currently in the wheel lathe at spm for tyre turning there is a possibility it will be moved to brush by rail as it costs a fortune to move it by road!!!
That would be 4304 1 the involved power car then? I understand that the spare cab has been located and arrangements for it's repair in hand. |
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TheLastMinute
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« Reply #88 on: August 12, 2010, 18:54:09 » |
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The RAIB▸ have announced that they are going to investigate the Lavington incident... Investigation into the collision of a passenger train with a fallen tree at Lavington, Wiltshire, on 10 July 2010
The RAIB is carrying out an investigation into the collision of a passenger train with a fallen tree at Lavington, on the line between Reading and Westbury, on 10 July 2010.
The train involved, 1C84, the 13:06 hrs service from London Paddington to Penzance, was travelling at about 90 mph (145 km/h) when it struck the tree. The service was operated by First Great Western and was formed by a High Speed Train (HST▸ ) set that was conveying around 200 passengers and 4 train crew.
The collision occurred at about 14:09 hrs. The driver had little warning of the obstruction on the line and could take no action to avert the collision.
The train was not derailed but extensive damage was caused to the front cab due to a large branch entering its interior at the level of the windscreen. Despite the damage, the driver sustained only minor injuries but was shocked by the event. None of the other crew members or passengers were injured.
Train 1C84 was assisted forward to Westbury by a freight locomotive and arrived there at 19:03 hrs where the passengers were detrained.
To date, there is no evidence that the condition of the railway infrastructure, signalling, rolling stock or driving of the train contributed to the collision.
The RAIB^s investigation is independent of any investigations by the safety authority.
The RAIB will publish a report, including any recommendations to improve safety, at the conclusion of its investigation. This report will be available on the RAIB website. Cheers, TLM |
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JayMac
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« Reply #89 on: August 12, 2010, 19:19:32 » |
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Was it really 6 hours between the incident and the passengers being de-trained at Westbury?  |
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« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 19:25:45 by bignosemac »
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"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
- Sir Terry Pratchett.
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