Is it time to campaign for an Open Access Operator in The GW area

[whole diary]

[smokey]

Trains in between Exeter and Newton Abbot may be fairly full but if the Railway finished at Plymouth about 40% of passengers between Exeter and Newton Abbot would Disappear.

Best example travel on HST^▸ (High Speed Train) starting at Plymouth going East loads about 15%.

Travel on HST from Plymouth going East that started in Penzance loads about 85% from Plymouth.

CUT the BRANCHES and the TREE WILL DIE.

[TerminalJunkie]

I dont doubt that the request stops are relatively lightly-used. However, as a co-organiser of a campaign that opposes the closure of such stations on principle, I cant support any proposal that would see them jeopardised.

It's one thing to argue that closing that bit of line costs too much money, or causes serious hardship, or affects significant numbers of people. But to object to it purely on the principle of opposing all closures with no regard to anything else is just plain silly.

[vacman]

I dont doubt that the request stops are relatively lightly-used. However, as a co-organiser of a campaign that opposes the closure of such stations on principle, I cant support any proposal that would see them jeopardised.

It's one thing to argue that closing that bit of line costs too much money, or causes serious hardship, or affects significant numbers of people. But to object to it purely on the principle of opposing all closures with no regard to anything else is just plain silly.

I agree, those stations are EXTREMEMLY lightly used, whenever i've been on the Newquay branch i've never picked anyone up at Luxulyan and very few at Roche, most trains do get stopped at Bugle in the summer months for people going out to Newquay.

[John R]

If a proposal were put forward that resulted in rerouting of the line to St Austell, with a much more frequent and fast service (say hourly), but the sacrifice was the existing line into Par be closed then I would support it as a sensible and pragmatic proposal. I know Lee is passionate about his view that no stations should be closed, but life is all about compromises.

[devon_metro]

Only problem i can see arrising from sending it to St Austell is that perhaps services from London may take longer? My geogrpahy of the area isn't brilliant getting to Newquay all i know is that the main road is awfully signposted getting there. The road on the otherhand is excellent.

[John R]

The mileages from Par on the current route and the proposed route are very similar (around 21 miles). The advantage is that you'd stay on the main line for 7 of those miles, which would help reduce the journey time for through trains as it would presumably be faster. And St Austell is a much larger (and hence more useful) centre of population for the branch line services to run to. The branch would also be reduced from 21 miles to around 14 miles, so one unit and crew could cover more services, particularly if a bit of investment was put in to improve the track and thus reduce journey times further.

All in all it's a no-brainer, which is probably why it hasn't happened. 

[FarWestJohn]

There was a plan to re route the Newquay branch from the erstwhile St. Dennis junction to St. Austell via the existing china clay line to Burngullow. This would only have required a small length of track to be relaid but a lot of money spent on the china clay line to upgrade it for passenger use. This could have come about as the Goss moor dualling of the A30 would have taken over the existing line from St. Dennis junction to Roche. Therefore a lot of the required money would have been paid for by the new road.
In the end the planners decided to build a completely new alignment for the road which took it north of the moor and the existing A30 closed. This has now happened and the opportunity has been lost.
The Newquay branch only survives because of the summer traffic. It is not much use for local traffic as it only goes to Par or occasionally Plymouth and the service is too sparse and too slow. On summer Saturdays there are no stops at any of the intermediate stations. Unless there is major developement in the area to provide more traffic I sadly cannot see the branch having a long term future. The ratio of maintenance costs to passenger numbers must be horrendous. A park and ride for Newquay like St.Ives  might help but I have never seen anyone show any interest in the idea,

[vacman]

There was a plan to re route the Newquay branch from the erstwhile St. Dennis junction to St. Austell via the existing china clay line to Burngullow. This would only have required a small length of track to be relaid but a lot of money spent on the china clay line to upgrade it for passenger use. This could have come about as the Goss moor dualling of the A30 would have taken over the existing line from St. Dennis junction to Roche. Therefore a lot of the required money would have been paid for by the new road.
In the end the planners decided to build a completely new alignment for the road which took it north of the moor and the existing A30 closed. This has now happened and the opportunity has been lost.
The Newquay branch only survives because of the summer traffic. It is not much use for local traffic as it only goes to Par or occasionally Plymouth and the service is too sparse and too slow. On summer Saturdays there are no stops at any of the intermediate stations. Unless there is major developement in the area to provide more traffic I sadly cannot see the branch having a long term future. The ratio of maintenance costs to passenger numbers must be horrendous. A park and ride for Newquay like St.Ives  might help but I have never seen anyone show any interest in the idea,

The Newquay branch would be far busier if more trains ran, quite often when I work the mainline people will ask for a day return to Newquay and when you tell them the one return train in the afternoon, which is to early for daytrippers, they then decide to go to St Austell and catch one of the half hourly busses! Like I posted before, Wessex ran eight trains per day in the summer and every train was busy from day one of the new timetable, with plenty of people travelling from Newquay for shopping trips etc, something that was unheard of previously! then the DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) issued their proposed timetable for the new franchise which at first consisted of just TWO trains per day all year round! However, some common sense prevailed and Newquay was left with the old 4 trains per day but all year round. It didn't even take time for people to get familliar with the 8 trains when Wessex ran it, they were busy from day one!

[smokey]

Right lets CLOSE TOTNES Station, it only serves a Population of 7,500, The Whitby Branch in North Yorkshire should also go Pop of 15,200 yet Whitby gets a Half decent service.
Falmouth has a fine Train Service Pop 18,000,  Penzance has 19,000 and has though trains to Scotland!
Newquay has a Population of 14,000 yet in Peak Summer Months this is incresed to around 100,000.

Nobody uses the Newquay branch as it has a Poor Service!
The First Train out is at 10.18 then 12.42, 14.52 and then just a short wait till 20.23.

But what if the Service was Diverted to St Austell, you could keep the Bugle route open with a First Train from Plymouth (about 05.45) calling stations to Par and then via Bugle all stations to Newquay (07.30)
Then Services frequently Newquay to St Austell, then a Mid day run Newquay to Par via Bugle, pick up Passengers from London and all places East, back to Newquay and then work the St Austell shuttle, with a Evening Run to And from Plymouth via Bugle.
Of course the route via Bugle would also be a BACK up when engineers work on the St Austell section.

[Shazz]

No one uses the newquay branch because it takes an hour to cover 20 miles, thus making any local journey a LOT quicker by car.

[vacman]

No one uses the newquay branch because it takes an hour to cover 20 miles, thus making any local journey a LOT quicker by car.

The time issue isn't really to bad, to drive from Newquay to Plymouth is quite an experience as Newquay is out on a limb by both road and rail, Newquay is busy all year round on friday evenings going in and Saturday afternoon/Monday morning coming back as  you get a lot of stag/hen parties from places as far afield as Manchester, the problem is the local traffic! it takes 45 minutes from Par to Newquay on a unit, ans 1hr on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) due to HST's being restricted to 25mph on the branch.

[Shazz]

The branch would need a fairly large relay to make it worth someones while for an open access then?

or are hst's restricted for other reasons?

[smokey]

Time for some INVESTMENT in Newquay Branch then, Journey time down to 40 minutes to Par, better still 30 minutes to St Austell

Oh Sorry FORGOT! Department for Tarmac invest in Roads,
Railway only gets Subsidy.

[vacman]

The branch would need a fairly larrge relay to make it worth someones while for an open access then?

or are hst's restricted for other reasons?

Don't think it's condition of track as a lot of the branch is CWR^▸ (Continuously Welded Rail), it's the embankments and light bridges etc I think, not to mention the ungated crossings, if most of the crossings were done away with on the branch then the journey would be far quicker, most of the crossings have alternative routes for the roads so are pretty pointless!

[Btline]

Quote from Mike Sperring:
"to keep it simple house building is sky high ,population is sky high,motorway capacity is sky high,polution is sky high,a railway line already exists,the demand already exists,the solution = replace 4 miles of track and build station,simple everyone can then commute and be happy.this wouldn`t even hardly cost anything. please look into this as it`s long awaited and as by the end of the year this town wont cope it`s too small thanx m.sperring"
End of quote.

What about applying this logic to the Newquay Branch?

This is what I would do:

*Build a park and ride station on the A38 with 2 HST^▸ (High Speed Train) length platforms and a large Car Park.
*Modernise and add another HST length platform to Newquay.
*Axe all, yes all, the other stations on the line and give them a bus (quicker, more convienent for the person/people and cheaper)
*Use the money saved to rebuild the track, including plenty of loops.
*Run an hourly service from Newquay to at least Par/St Austell in the summer calling a Parkway only (with plenty of trains running on to London and the Midlands.)
*Run a few trains in the Winter which most terminate at Par/St Austell, with some going to Plymouth.
*Add a salt water splash on the line, so Voyagers are banned.... only joking!!!!!!!!!
Result: FGW^▸ (First Great Western) save cash which is used to improve service. HST goes from Cornish mainline to Newquat in 1/2 hour after picking up loads of people at Parkway.
The local residents get a quicker, cheaper and more convenient bus service.

MAIN RESULT: HSTs are full all day in winter, and then as Mike hopes:
motorway capacity will no longer be sky high !!!!!!!!

Ok, I am sure the locals won't like it, but the line is not viable, unlike the TransWilts