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Author Topic: Sold the incorrect tickets for my journey (A Rant)  (Read 10109 times)
thetrout
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« on: June 18, 2011, 00:52:56 »

I purchased 2 tickets for my travel today to London and I am not happy!

I asked for a First Class ticket from Westbury - London Zone 1,2 & 3 via Warminster and Salisbury. I should have paid ^43.85 (Railcard Discount applied) But the sales advisor told me he could only sell me a ticket to Zone 1, 2 & 3 if I went into Paddington. So I took Westbury to London Terminals via Warminster-Salisbury for ^41.85

So I then asked for a London Underground ticket from Waterloo to Zone 3. I was sold London Terminals - U3* LONDN for ^6.80. I then realised once i'd boarded the train that my railcard discount hadn't been applied to this ticket. But it got worse. When I tried to use it in the barrier for the underground I was told to "Seek Assistance" and a LU advisor confirmed with me that the ticket was not valid for starting the journey in Zone 1 and would have to buy another ticket. Angry

I then went to buy another ticket and I could not for the life of me get the machine to issue me a single to Zones 1 2 and 3. I ended up with a travelcard from zones 1 - 6 for ^5.30 with railcard discount.

So all in all, i'm now ^10.10 down because of an FGW (First Great Western) Sales Advisor cock up! Fabulous start to the weekend Angry Roll Eyes Shocked
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Ollie
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« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2011, 01:04:52 »

Best bet will probably be to keep hold of anything you have to buy owing to the error, and take them back requesting a refund.
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JayMac
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« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2011, 01:27:30 »

I believe you've faced a similar problem before, the trout. Sorry to hear you have faced another cock-up.  Sad

In the first instance, you need to complain to FGW (First Great Western) as it was their employee who failed to sell you the product you asked for. I've checked and there is a ticket as you described. Which I'm sure you know!

Future reference: Ask the clerk to enter ZONE U123* LONDN (or 0791) as the destination and to select the Anytime Day 1st Single, Route: WARMSTER-SALSBRY. Whilst it's handy to know this precise information it shouldn't be behoven of the passenger to provide it.

Include those destination details in your complaint to FGW as well. You should be refunded for any additional expense above the ^43.85 you should've paid and if it were me I'd be asking for that refund by cheque not Rail Travel Vouchers. FGW may try and wriggle out by saying that the subsequent tickets sold in error are not their fault, but it was their clerk's failure in the first place that led to those errors.

Hopefully FGW will refund without too much hassle, but if not then you should inform them you will be escalating the complaint to Passenger Focus pointing out that the failure to sell you the correct ticket is a breach of the rules for impartial retailing - something that is part of their franchise agreement.

It's disappointing that the FGW clerk initially only offered you a ZONE U123* if you went via Paddington. A FGW route where they set the fare and take the lion's share of revenue. Probably not deliberate, but it's the sort of thing which Passenger Focus and the Office of Railway Regulation are there for to prevent.

ATOC» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here)'s guidelines to rail retail staff are quite clear on the issue of impartial retailing:

Quote
ATOC Retail Standards Guide

C.1 Impartiality

This is the most important requirement and is necessary because Retailers will be selling tickets or giving information about different TOCs (Train Operating Company).

Retailers at impartial Points of Sale must therefore act fairly and impartially between TOCs and any information that is provided must be factual, accurate and impartial (TSA (Ticketing and Settlement Agreement.) clause 6-30(1)(a)).

Impartiality simply means providing the customer with information or a ticket that is the most suitable for their needs. Retailers must not favour their own train services, or those of any TOC over others in providing information or selling the ticket.

Where a customer asks to purchase a specific fare for a specific journey, this can be sold without giving any further information (TSA clause 6-30(2)(d)).

In many cases only one fare will meet the customer^s requirements as only one TOC provides a service for the journey concerned. Even where more than one TOC is involved the customer may be specific by stating their requirements in terms of:
^ Destination station
^ Ticket Type
^ Train
^ Class

In these circumstances, the Retailer only needs to seek further information when the customer wants to make a journey that cannot be made with that fare. An example is a customer requesting a discounted fare at a time of day when this fare is not valid.

Where the customer does not specify which fare they want and more than one is available that may meet their requirements, the Retailer must seek additional information to enable the correct fare to be sold. If more than one fare is suitable for their needs, the Retailer must explain the main features of the alternatives impartially (TSA clause 6-30(2)).

Note: TSA = Ticket and Settlement Agreement. An agreement signed by all TOCs which sets out clear obligations for them on the standards they are required to meet with regard to the selling of rail tickets impartially and correctly.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 01:33:31 by bignosemac » Logged

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vacman
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« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2011, 17:15:02 »

Whilst the cock up is unfortunate, and we all make mistakes sometimes, it is ultimately the customers responsabilty to check they have the correct tickets before leaving the window.
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insider
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« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2011, 17:54:51 »

Not 100% certain but can Star terminals issue a through ticket to any underground Zone as railcards do not get discount on the underground portion. Railcard discounts are only valid on all zone (1-6, but also 1-9 with separate conditions) travelcards with a min fare of ^5.30.

Good old fashioned APTIS (All Purpose Ticket Issuing System) would have allowed this ticket as the staff could override the fare.

However this would not account for the staff member saying they could issue the ticket on the Any Permitted route.

Also don^t understand why the LUL (London Underground Ltd) staff just didn't let you through on the ticket from London Terminals to Zone U3 as the revenue would go to them it just wasn't issued quite right and they could obviously see that it wasn't your error.

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jdw.wor
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« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2011, 20:49:53 »

Vacman
Whilst the customer has responsibility, what do you do when the clerk refuses to sell you the right ticket?
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JayMac
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« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2011, 22:51:41 »

Not 100% certain but can Star terminals issue a through ticket to any underground Zone as railcards do not get discount on the underground portion. Railcard discounts are only valid on all zone (1-6, but also 1-9 with separate conditions) travelcards with a min fare of ^5.30.

That may be an issue (paging Ollie!!!) but the fare is listed in the Fares Manual (I'm only going by NFM (National Fares Manual) 08 valid until May 2011 - I don't yet have NFM 09 - so there is a very slight chance that the fare is no longer available):

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eightf48544
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« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2011, 23:12:28 »

Whilst the cock up is unfortunate, and we all make mistakes sometimes, it is ultimately the customers responsabilty to check they have the correct tickets before leaving the window.

But how do you know you've been sold the right tickets unless you ask for a specific type of ticket routed a specific way, most people wouldn't know.

I have some sympathy for the booking clerks the system is so complicated. Plus they get into trouble for selling the wrong cheaper  ticket or a more expensive ticket when there is a cheaper ticket valid on the trains concrned.  I would defy anyone one person to say what is cheapest way of getting from A to B at a particular time of day and day of the week. Where A and B are any two stations on the Network.
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Ollie
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« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2011, 00:38:28 »

Not 100% certain but can Star terminals issue a through ticket to any underground Zone as railcards do not get discount on the underground portion. Railcard discounts are only valid on all zone (1-6, but also 1-9 with separate conditions) travelcards with a min fare of ^5.30.
Star is more than capable of doing it if the ticket is there. And even if it's not, if you find the fare is in "The Manual" (all Star machines have access to this) then you just do a manual fare on Star.

In terms of railcard discounts on LU services, if the ticket is wholely LU no discount, but if a national rail discount is included it can be applied.
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JayMac
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« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2011, 00:51:53 »

Thanks for that Ollie.  Cool

You're a Star (pun intended)  Tongue Wink Grin

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thetrout
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« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2011, 11:12:13 »

Thanks for the replies Wink

I definately know the fare exists... It will even come up on the Southern Journey Planner for 43.85

There are lots of anomalies on the Warminster Salisbury route. For example you can get Standard Class tickets from Frome routed Warminster Salisbury, But not First Class tickets. Something I have mentioned to SWT (South West Trains) about previously. They also have weird excess options from Standard Class to First Class on Westbury - Waterloo tickets. (Where as I posted in another thread, I was quoted 4 different prices Angry )

I find this really irritating to be honest when I ask for tickets like this and then receive a look that suggests i've grown 3 heads Angry A classic example is asking for the Cheapest First Class return between Southampton and London. They will sell you an SWT Ticket. They don't like to tell you about the Sourthern Trains option which is much cheaper but the route is longer (Get a free coffee though Grin ). The usual response is "But no-one goes that way" (What I didn't tell the clerk was that I was actually travelling short to Gatwick Airport but it's cheaper to buy to London Victoria!)

Another way of looking at this though that I should point out. I suffer from an ASD, so I sometimes struggle to explain things and it doesn't always make sense to the person listening. So it could have been a partial error on my part. But to clarify. The Clerk definately said that if they put on Zone U123* it would only display Paddington bound tickets and I would have to buy a seperate ticket for LU if I wanted Waterloo!! Angry
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devon_metro
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« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2011, 11:46:29 »

The cheapest ticket to London from Southampton is in fact a Southampton - Brighton ticket routed Not London (valid via Clapham Jn), then a single from Clapham is dead cheap.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2011, 11:48:01 »

Is it really valid via CJ?.....is that not just saying you have to go along the CoastWay?
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Brucey
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« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2011, 11:52:00 »

SOU - BTN is valid via LONDON, CW (Christian Wolmar (rail journalist)) and WX+LB.

WX permits Southampton - Clapham Junction via Basingstoke.
LB permits Clapham Junction - Brighton via Streatham and Gatwick Airport.

Only a SOU-BTN ticket is actually required as the journey can be broken at GTW.
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eightf48544
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« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2011, 14:40:31 »

Thanks Brucey but what language is that?

I did not understand a thing,  I'm still not sure sure what the routings are.

How are the public espected to understand this at least I know roughly what station is on what line and where it's served from.
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