Filming of station staff

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

After being asked to stop filming, he should've complied. There's the potential for a byelaw offence or harassment charge. Being a police officer is irrelevant. They aren't above the law.

If information on the binned TIR^▸ (Travel Irregularity Report) can be retrieved then it may be worth bringing the matter to the attention of the local constabulary. If someone is using his status as police officer to intimidate and harass then that is a serious matter that needs investigating.

Filming and photography is permitted on stations for non-commercial purposes. But staff have the right to ask you to stop. There's nothing stopping you taking pictures of people in public places within reason, but if you start shoving your zoom lens up their nostrils or taking action shots of their every step, there's a chance you might get a clip around the ear from your aggrieved subject or possibly face a legal charge of harassment or breach of the peace.

[Electric train]

To shed some more light on this matter, a passenger arrived with no ticket or money and details were taken to process a TIR^▸ (Travel Irregularity Report), parent then arrived with ticket and TIR was binned with no further action - parent then still persued matter and filmed member of staff even when.asked to stop also claiming he had every right as he was a police officer. 

Then quite simply the person was not a Police Office, I know quite a number of Police Officers they are extremely careful in the manor they get involved especially when in is a personal issue and when off duty; they certainly would have accepted the TIR had been voided.

In this incident the person doing the filming was being aggressive and threatening to the member of staff and run the real risk of being arrested (police officer or not)

In general most staff certainly on larger stations I suspect know they are likely to be in photos not an issue I guess for the "tourist" or rail enthusiast different matter where a photographer is taking pictures for financial gain, we should also balance against that the historic value how often have we looked at pictures from 25, 50, 100 etc years ago of railway staff performing their duties

[grahame]

Aside - we're short on "TIR^▸ (Travel Irregularity Report)" for the acronyms page.  I can tell what it is from the context, but what does TIR stand for?

[Ollie]

If I remember correctly it is a "Travel Irregularity Report" - it's something that can be forwarded on to revenue protection to deal with.

[Brucey]

And often used in place of an MG11^▸ (Form to take a statement for use in court) by staff who are not PACE^» (Police & Criminal Evidence Act - about) trained.

MG11 = Form to take a statement for use in court
PACE = Police & Criminal Evidence Act

[JayMac]

But also used when the ticket appears to be irregular but at no fault of passenger holding it. Such as one mis-sold or misprinted.

[EBrown]

also claiming he had every right as he was a police officer. 

He has the same rights as anyone else, if he was on-duty and was recording; then he'd need a warrant (I believe).

[grahame]

If I remember correctly it is a "Travel Irregularity Report" - it's something that can be forwarded on to revenue protection to deal with.

MG11^▸ (Form to take a statement for use in court) = Form to take a statement for use in court
PACE^» (Police & Criminal Evidence Act - about) = Police & Criminal Evidence Act

Added, thanks!

[Chris from Nailsea]

As an aside, and coincidentally -

From the Epsom Guardian:

Police clarify train photography rules following "arrest" claim

The rules on train photography have been clarified after it was claimed that a student had been arrested for taking a photograph of a train as she could have been part of a "terrorist plot".

Following the Epsom Guardian^s online story of the alleged arrest at Tattenham Corner Station, British Transport Police (BTP^▸ (British Transport Police)) received a number of enquiries about when it is illegal to take photographs at train stations.

Chris Ward overheard a woman saying that a student taking photographs for a school project was arrested at the station and the photos deleted from her camera as ^she could have been part of a terrorist cell plotting some form of attack on the train^.

But BTP said no record was generated of the alleged incident.

Detective Chief Inspector Matt Wratten said: "We have taken the suggestion that an individual was arrested for photography on the railway extremely seriously.

"Had this arrest taken place it would have generated a report, however, we have searched all BTP systems, those of the Metropolitan Police Service and Surrey Police for the last 12 months and can find no record which confirms this allegation.

"There are no powers prohibiting the taking of photographs, film or digital images in a public place.

"Therefore members of the public and press should not be prevented from doing so.

"Moreover the rail network often attracts rail enthusiasts and amateur photographers and we, alongside the rail industry, recognise their valuable role in the railway community.

"If someone is taking photographs on the rail network they may be spoken to by a member of rail staff or a police officer but we encourage this engagement because photographers and their images play a vital role in helping us identify criminals and providing information.

"The rail network is a CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision)-rich environment, and this, combined with images sent to us by members of the pubic, means that we have great success in detecting crime."

A BTP spokeswoman added that a person may be stopped under terrorism laws, but no record of an arrest on this basis was generated either.

She said: "A police officer may stop and search someone under section 43 of the Terrorism Act 2000 providing that they reasonably suspect that the person is a terrorist.

"Under section 43 of the Terrorism Act 2000, a person can be searched to discover whether or not they have in their possession anything which may constitute evidence that they are a terrorist.

"This power may be used at any time or in any place when the threshold of reasonable suspicion that the person is a terrorist is met. No specific authorisation is required."

For further guidance visit http://www.btp.police.uk/passengers/advice_and_information/rail_enthusiasts.aspx

[BerkshireBugsy]

I'm going to start this post by typing "but I didn't"

I had been following updates on this thread today and this was still at the back of my mind when I changed trains at reading - from p4 to p7 . On the way to the western end of p7 (to catch the 17:36) there was a BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) official apparently being verbally abused by a member of the public.

I did wonder if there would be any justification for recording this abuse as possible evidence but (a) I didn't think it was my place (b) I didnt think the BTP officer would appreciate it and (c) I am fairly certain the member of the public involved certainly would not approve and it probably would have made matters worse.

I'm just wondering in anyone else here has ever recorded such an incident or been tempted to ?

[Chris from Nailsea]

This is my personal opinion - not an official forum stance:

I'd suggest filming it, perhaps discreetly, and then offering it as witness evidence to the police officer's colleagues when they arrived.

Do not, however, post it on youtube first. 

Chris from Nailsea.

[BerkshireBugsy]

This is my personal opinion - not an official forum stance:

I'd suggest filming it, perhaps discreetly, and then offering it as witness evidence to the police officer's colleagues when they arrived.

Do not, however, post it on youtube first. 

Chris from Nailsea.

@cfn I appreciate your opinion but in this particular instance the layout of p7 where the incident occurred would not have allowed discretion.

it's my opinion that posting such footage (like what I didn't take) should not be posted on youtube

[TonyK]

To shed some more light on this matter, a passenger arrived with no ticket or money and details were taken to process a TIR^▸ (Travel Irregularity Report), parent then arrived with ticket and TIR was binned with no further action - parent then still persued matter and filmed member of staff even when.asked to stop also claiming he had every right as he was a police officer. 

If he was a police officer, he would be in deep doo doo with his inspector if he was reporter for trying to pull rank, whether in the right or wrong. If, as seems more likely, he wasn't, the doo doo would be deeper, for trying to impersonate an officer.

[TonyK]

I'm going to start this post by typing "but I didn't"

I had been following updates on this thread today and this was still at the back of my mind when I changed trains at reading - from p4 to p7 . On the way to the western end of p7 (to catch the 17:36) there was a BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) official apparently being verbally abused by a member of the public.

I did wonder if there would be any justification for recording this abuse as possible evidence but (a) I didn't think it was my place (b) I didnt think the BTP officer would appreciate it and (c) I am fairly certain the member of the public involved certainly would not approve and it probably would have made matters worse.

I'm just wondering in anyone else here has ever recorded such an incident or been tempted to ?

My job very occasionally involves being shouted at by irate (but wrong) members of Her Majesty's adoring public. I handle it as diplomatically and as quietly as I can. After a while, they run out of steam, and either I say my piece, or they go. I can handle it, and will shout if I can't.

A BTP officer can do this, and has the added advantage of police training, body armour, handcuffs, ASP extendable baton, CS gas, and a cellular radio that will make the station look like a crowd scene in The Bill in an instant. Oh, and they get a torch. They can cope, and your decision to leave them to it was a wise one.

[Chris from Nailsea]

To shed some more light on this matter, a passenger arrived with no ticket or money and details were taken to process a TIR^▸ (Travel Irregularity Report), parent then arrived with ticket and TIR was binned with no further action - parent then still persued matter and filmed member of staff even when.asked to stop also claiming he had every right as he was a police officer. 

If you are not happy with the actions of any police officer, apparently abusing their position of authority, you may report them to the professional standards department of their police force: a list is available at http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/en/Pages/professional_standards_contact_details.aspx