I think you'll find that either -

a) those NXEC^▸ (National Express East Coast)-only First Class fares are on flows that NXEC don't price; or -

b) That rule only applies in Standard class.

I can ask the head fare-setter at FGW^▸ (First Great Western) in a couple of weeks though - that rule definitely exists.

Can you provide some examples please?

Yup - sorry, I'd have kiboshed that statement if I'd been reading the board at the time.

The rule is that whoever the fare-setting TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) is for any flow, they can't then also set their own TOC-only fare. Any other operator on that flow is permitted to have their own TOC-only fare. It's to prevent a TOC from undercutting itself, which is seen as anti-competitive.

Chiltern will be the fare setter at Water Eaton, so will only set the Any Permitted fare (which will be via HWY, *not* Oxford, to London). As there will be no competition from there, it will be the only fare available.

I'm sure it will undercut the Any Permitted fare from Oxford, but presumably would be set at the same or only slightly less than the Chiltern fare from Oxford....but would need to be less again than the Bicester fare to London.

Now the Bicester Any Permitted fare will be an interesting topic - currently there are different fares from Bicester North & Bicester Town to London Terminals. Once Chiltern take over routes from both stations, the stations in Bicester will need to be 'grouped' ['Bicester Stations'] (to enable punters to go out from one & return to the other, for example), and thus the fare would have to be the same from each station. That might restrict the fare chargeable from Water Eaton.

The plans definitely exist at TfL^» (Transport for London - about) as it was in Ken's masterplan, for sure. He mentioned this at meetings more than once. Whether Boris will pick it up, he hasn't yet said. I don't think Ken was worried about sharing stations, but he had the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)'s ear, that's for sure.


Says who? It currently will go only to Maidenhead. Let's not start stating theory as fact again, please.

Chiltern I'm sure will be advertising like mad, I'm sure....

"Come and try us for no extra cost!"

And Chiltern can set their own Oxford fare, lower than FGW^▸ (First Great Western), for their own service! Whereas if FGW drop the 'Any Permitted' fare, they'll gain no advantage & just sugffer a drop in their takings. Unwise, I feel.

In any case, you can be sure that Chiltern will be getting the Rail Settlement Plan changed in their favour - so they'll get a share of Oxford ticket revenue whether or not they carry many from there.

The Section 106 money is from Bicester Village I think - it has to be spent locally....

Don' t be too expressive, eh?

Which point!? - longer contracts or LO takling over surburban services?

I thought XRail was to be LO?.....

I can't support those 'suburban' services that serve main-line stations outside the M25, sorry. The Mayor's interests don't go that far.....

yes, that's what I thought. Rather stupid.....

Go-Ahead, Britain^s busiest train operator, said that profits on its London to Midlands franchise had been hit by recent labour disputes.

The company was hurt by unofficial industrial action in September when drivers failed to turn up to work following the end of an agreement that gave them double pay on Sundays.

Keith Ludeman, chief executive, said on Thursday that management changes relating to the dispute would ^largely offset the underlying profitability of this franchise for the current financial year^.

The owner of the London Midland, Southern and Southeastern franchises, which carry about 900,000 passengers a day, said further job cuts and changes to working practices would be needed to keep costs down.

The company is heavily exposed to the London commuter market and has seen rising unemployment hit passenger numbers over the past six months. Mr Ludeman predicted that the economic climate would remain ^tough^.

Meanwhile, the uncertain state of the rail market was highlighted in a trading statement by Arriva, which said that consistent growth had resumed at its CrossCountry franchise, which runs between Aberdeen in Scotland and Penzance in south-west England.

Passenger revenue growth slowed to 1.3 per cent in the 42 weeks to October 24 but rose by 3.8 per cent in the past six weeks. Growth was even higher at its Arriva Trains Wales franchise at 6.7 per cent.

Douglas McNeill, analyst at Astaire Securities, described the Arriva figures as a ^ray of light^ for the industry. ^Like its close cousin the employment market, the rail industry is emitting mixed signals at present,^ he said. ^The question for both is whether demand will turn up as soon as GDP does, or only much later.^

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/20932104-c4af-11de-8d54-00144feab49a.html?nclick_check=1

I think BtLine was referring to lines such as Shepperton, Chessington South, etc - inner-suburban if you like.

Yes, there are Primary aspirations, which I understand have to be implemented by the required spends itemised in the franchise and secondary aspirations (Oxford was one of therse) which required DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) approval before being allowed within these spends.

I was linking 'Evergreen x' and being related to the required spends in the franchise, rather than each aspiration. The spend on Evergreen 3 is the last major spend required in the current franchise.

I guess Chiltern may in future want to progress other secondary aspirations, but having to spend their own money over & above franchise requirements means 'real' investment, rather than investing what was specified, and thus could be called taxpayers money. Whether the recession will allow them any fuirther investment opportunities won't be known for at least 5 years, I reckon - when passenger numbers might have recovered to pre-recession plus figures.

Not possible - The TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) that sets the fares on any flow can't also set TOC-only lower fares.

There is no Evergreen 4 in this franchise - as I understand it, not in the current (extended) franchise. So nothing more until a new franchise post-2021.

Two trains an hour, every hour?


Go talk to the County Council - they're so worried that they've insisted Chiltern carry out loads of traffic simulation exercises to show exactly what is likely......

Hmmm - not many do that drive, I'll wager. 2 hours-plus to get into Central London, plus daily congestion charge plus parking costs. It's a no-brainer. I certainly think there'll be an abstraction of those driving off the Cotswolds to Bicester North curtrently, plus those from Charlbury and even Moreton if the price is right, along with Hanborough.

I don't think there'll be many from the Oxford-London coach market either - they'll still get a cheaper ride....


Sorry, but we'll have to differ on that one. Proof will be in the eating. I notice Chiltern have requested a very swift review of their services, should forecast numbers not hold up.


Totally agree there, mind you. The bus service will be decimated, I reckon. And the southbound A34 and M40 junction 9 in the morning and northbound in the evening will get a big easing. Until those commuters return to Water Eaton of course....

Put all those things together and I think you will have a service that is well worth it.
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