676
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All across the Great Western territory / The Wider Picture in the United Kingdom / Re: HS2 - Government proposals, alternative routes and general discussion
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on: August 24, 2013, 18:00:04
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Why no option 4 for diverting freight?
Good point, but I am not sure where that leaves you since you would still be left with three incompatible traffic types on two railways. Also there is nowhere to divert it to. the ECML▸ and the MML» are both full - space is being made on the line up through Spalding. So the option would be to kick the freight off onto the roads. I suppose my option 3 involved kicking the local services onto the roads. However there is little road capacity so at least with option 4 we are saying build another Motorway to the North. Now I wonder how much that would cost? So Option 4) Divert all freight off the WCML▸ onto the roads, cancel the electric spine and invest in a massive programme of road improvements. So as a first stage how do we improve capacity from London & Southampton to the Midlands. Ah yes widening the M3 from Southampton to Winchester (shouldn't be any opposition to widening that cutting through Twyford Down - no one objected the first time), a new M34 from Winchester to Oxford and a widening programme on the M40 to 5 lanes (through the Chilterns of course should be no problem). Since it is for freight perhaps we should ban cars. I'm confused. 4-track railways handle fast, semi-fast and stopping trains, vide the SWML▸ and the elegant way the timetablers interweave the three types of service, mostly without conflict. It's true that most railways approaching London are heavingly full but further out the grass grows longer, speech is slower and even the trains thin out. The capacity problem is essentially how to get North of Rugby, present soutions being the electric spine to Nuneaton and HS2▸ . HS2 goes past Aylesbury to Rugby as does the extant Great Central trackbed. South of Aylesbury there are two routes into London. It would probably even make sense to reinstate the GCML▸ as well as building HS2, making it effectively (and economically) 4-track. I don't understand why putting freight back on the roads should be an option. OTC
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677
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All across the Great Western territory / The Wider Picture in the United Kingdom / Re: HS2 - Government proposals, alternative routes and general discussion
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on: August 24, 2013, 00:07:59
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I have some new alternative money saving scheme to avoid building HS2▸ . They all stem from the problem that we are using two pairs of tracks to run four railways (fast, semi-fast, local passengers and freight).
a) Option 1 - Keep the fast lines for Intercity express services - cease all semi-fast services. Milton Keynes, Rugby, Coventry, Wolverhampton Stafford etc. would only be served by local services which, together with freight would use the slow lines. Capacity would be optimised by running all trains at the same speed.
b) Option 2 - Abolish the express services. semi fast services (or fast services as they would become) would stop at all medium sized stations and would use the fast lines along with express freight. Local services would use the slow lines along with slower freight services.
c) Option 3 - Close all the small stations and run no local services - after all this is a main line not a commuter railway. The only stations on the WCML▸ would be Euston, Milton Keynes, Rugby, Coventry, Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Stafford, Crewe, Stoke, Stockport, Manchester, Warrington, Preston, Lancaster, Carlisle, Glasgow. Any other stations on the WCML north of Watford (which would continue to be served by the DC▸ lines) would be closed to allow capacity for Fast, semi fast and freight services.
Which one would you choose?
Why no option 4 for diverting freight? OTC
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678
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All across the Great Western territory / The Wider Picture - related rail and other transport issues / Re: More North-West Electrification
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on: August 22, 2013, 13:59:11
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Unless HS2▸ swallows all the money, which is possibly another minus against it, less electrification elsewhere.
It's not just the money but also the engineering resources available in the UK▸ in terms of professional Civil, Mechanical and Electrical Designers, Consultants and Contractors. These cannot be summoned like a genie from a magic lamp, they need sustained education, training, responsible experience and long term career progression, much like medical staff and unlike City types selling pieces of (electronic) paper. Unless of course we can get Electric_train to work triple shifts, 24/7 on a voluntary basis.... OTC
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679
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All across the Great Western territory / The Wider Picture in the United Kingdom / Re: HS2 - Government proposals, alternative routes and general discussion
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on: August 19, 2013, 20:31:54
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I would rather see a 2 track railway going through the landscape than a 6 lane motorway! Many of our railways blend in beautifully into the landscape. How does HS1▸ look ten years or so after it was built? I do not hear about any complaints of the noise from it either.
You could provide the capacity on the current alignments, but you would have to tear great swathes through most of the towns on the route. I think you might find that is less popular than than going through the countryside.
What all our economic models seem to miss is that high house prices in the South and South East are crippling this country. If we did not have to pay so much for housing then wages would be less and living standards higher. As a result the country would be more competitive. Either we find some way of moving our economy North and West and take the heat out of the London bubble, or the UK▸ (as opposed to London) will never be economically strong. It is no coincidence that most of the opposition is coming from the South East.
Trying to fossilise some past idyll gives everyone a warm feeling (me included), but my children do not want to live in a museum, they want jobs and affordable housing.
Oh and the cost? How does it compare to the amount on money we put in the bail out the banks?
HS2▸ needs a core path of 25m width for 2 track (60m for 4 track), with another 25m each side affected. This compares with a 3 lane motorway width including verges of 35.6m. A classic two track railway could fit in an 8.5m strip. Perhaps the towns to have great swathes cut through them could have the tunnels planned for Buckinghamshire farmland and villages. As an exiled Northerner, I recall that transport links can cut two ways, often draining the life out of the Regions. Liverpool used to have its own Stock Exchange and Insurance Industry. I'm not against HS2, just think we should concentrate upon outcome not process, the service to be delivered, not the "way and works". Regards, OTC
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680
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All across the Great Western territory / The Wider Picture in the United Kingdom / Re: HS2 - Government proposals, alternative routes and general discussion
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on: August 18, 2013, 21:38:51
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I think that the HS2▸ issue has been muddled, as usual by sectional interest lobbying from the industries that want the contracts and UK▸ Regions that want infrastructure without the bill.
IMHO▸ there are two issues; the desirability of TGV▸ 's operating on the InterCity (dates me!) network and the need for more capacity particularly on the WCML▸ .
The capacity issue is I contend because of the amount of freight routed this way, especially South of Rugby, not because of IC▸ (VWC) & LM▸ traffic.
The TGV issue depends on how far and at what cost the UK rail system can be made suitable.
The capacity issue could be addressed by reopening the 34 miles of the GC» line between Calvert and Rugby, in many ways much the same route as HS2 but for freight mainly. While there will always be more congestion nearer London, there do seem to be a lot of disused loops etc closer in.
The TGV issue could be addressed by easing the curves on the main lines including some new stretches and improving clearances. Not every km of track needs to be cleared for 250mph. About 25% of UK main line route needs such attention (our lines were built to much better alignments than in mainland Europe).
I don't accept that this would be too disruptive; it was how BR▸ created the IC network in the 1960's and 70's.
I would like TGV's out of Paddington, as well.
OTC
(and for today only, Capt Link Hogthrob)
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681
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All across the Great Western territory / The Wider Picture - related rail and other transport issues / Re: More North-West Electrification
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on: August 15, 2013, 21:46:04
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Returning to the topic, as well as the previous omission of Windermere, the failure to include a direct Manchester - Wigan route seems strange, bearing in mind the wiring from Liverpool through St Helens and the greater economic importance of Manchester.
Wigan has broadly 5 off peak services per hour from Manchester, 3 via Bolton, 2 via Atherton. Only 1 actually starts from the City, the others coming from the airport, Stalybridge and Rochdale. The Bolton route will be 70% wired (more if one throws in Stalybridge), so 1 or 2 electric workings per hour would have a high multiplier effect.
Towns like Wigan, Bolton (or Rochdale) are actually near to the size of Reading, with large hinterland populations (200 - 300k). It would surely make additional sense for the new Lancashire- Scots electrics to serve both Bolton and Wigan rather than one or the other. The section in question is about 6.5 miles westward from Lostock Junction.
OTC
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683
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All across the Great Western territory / The Wider Picture - related rail and other transport issues / Re: More North-West Electrification
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on: August 11, 2013, 22:59:20
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Windermere ticks the wiring boxes in that:
It can share an emu fleet.
It has a 25kV feeder station at Natland, just South of Oxenhome, so power isn't a problem. (This is near the Hutton supergrid compound.)
The multiplier effect is high; 10miles 16ch of wiring eliminates c85 mile diesel workings from Manchester.
Operationally, it probably allows Windermere trains to be stopping, freeing longer distance services.
There's presumably a market for better (speed and capacity) services and also political support in the region.
etc etc.
The Joker in the wider electrification pack is 3rd rail upgrades, where it seems that 750V replacement costs the same or more than new 25kV and lacks the running cost savings. Hence we may well see the outer parts of the Southern system move to 25kV, where it is simpler to install but nett savings will be greatest (and positive). I suspect that we'll see Pirbright Junction - Weymouth go 25kV, then Woking - Portsmouth and Redhill - Brighton. Now that rigid bar catenary seems accepted, low tunnels won't be a problem and Merseyrail would be a likely candidate for 25kV as its renewal costs would be less and potential greater.
For us in (F)GW▸ territory, wiring timescales may depend on how long the HST▸ 's can be spun out and whether diesel IEP▸ can work well enough.
OTC
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685
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All across the Great Western territory / Across the West / Re: HOOP - High Output Overhead line equipment Plant - coming to Great Western
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on: July 22, 2013, 20:24:32
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You could say that the electric railway is actually (largely) steam-electric; it's just that unlike unlike the diesel-electric system, the locos don't carry the generators round with them. It's the same principal as Brunel's atmospheric railway - put the heavy plant beside the tracks, and transmit power to the locos as they need it.
.......and electric trains have steam's great advantage of massive short term overcapacity. Just as a steam loco could start/accelerate/climb with late cut-off (i.e using full boiler pressure for much of the expansion), electric motor currents and powers may exceed continuous ratings by 60 - 70% for short periods. Thus even a humble class 73, max rating 1420kW could give 2350kW for a short time. You'll sometimes see motor ratings as continuous, sometimes as 1-hour. SNCF▸ quotes them for 7.5 minutes! The limit of course depends on the temperature the windings' insulation can stand. Even an MTU▸ Diesel must run out of puff when it reaches its set maximum output. OTC
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686
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All across the Great Western territory / Across the West / Re: HOOP - High Output Overhead line equipment Plant - coming to Great Western
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on: July 21, 2013, 19:36:44
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It is true BR▸ did have electrification construction trains, they were not "factory trains" as the HOOP is portrayed to be.
BR's foundation train, basically a train of cement mixers that were loaded from a batching plant in the construction depot, the train in latter years had a excavator although many foundations were hand dug during the week next to the open railway (rules were different in those days). The foundation train would run out on a weekend night or mid week and drop the re-bar in an pour the concrete around a polystyrene former, in later years holding down bolts were cast in for bolted base masts.
BR then had a train with a crane, an adapted 12 Tonne PW▸ crane that lifted the masts in place where they used a polystyrene former this was melted out with acetone and the mast grouted in. For large portals the 75 Tonne breakdown cranes were used, it was all Mechanical & Electrical Engineers Dept in those days
BR's wiring these were indeed converted rolling stock the roofs were flatten off, so the linesmen could walk along as the train moved along, the problem with these trains is they did not have any guard rails there was a risk of falling off, which did happen, needless to say elf n safety did not like these. During the construction of North Pole the use of wiring trains was not allowed by the depot construction contractors caused a panic for the BR construction engineer at the time.
So yes BR did have construction trains, long gone now they would have evolved I guess if we as a nation had not just stopped electrifying railways 30 years ago
Many thanks for the details from your rich experience. OTC
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688
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Journey by Journey / London to Kennet Valley / Re: Electrification beyond Newbury - study results
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on: June 24, 2013, 08:41:54
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It depends whether one tries to justify spending on cost saving or revenue generating.
19 nearly empty (after Hungerford) electric trains to Bedwyn are clearly cheaper than 19 nearly empty diesels.
19 trains to Pewsey would have at least three times the present passenger/customer loadings West of Hungerford. Going to Westbury would produce seven+ times the present loadings, probably 10x with a Devizes Parkway.
The study, on its present logic, should have ended wiring at Hungerford and cut back drastically the service to Bedwyn. Evidently not politically acceptable.
OTC
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689
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Journey by Journey / London to Kennet Valley / Re: Electrification beyond Newbury - study results
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on: June 23, 2013, 23:39:04
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The station entrance and exits figures for 2011/12 are (rounded):
Hungerford 278k Bedwyn 107k Pewsey 208k Westbury 425K
It does look odd that wiring beyond Hungerford to Bedwyn is viable but to Pewsey is not.
It's about 30 route miles on from Pewsey to Westbury and a Parkway for Devizes would be a big plus.
Unless there is a big jump in costs going West from Bedwyn (such as an extra feeder station/GSP), it doesn't look very rational.
OTC
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