I have one of these cards.

The rubric is:

"With your Railcard, you^ll save money on both long and short trips. Better still, you can use it anytime on weekends, Public Holidays and during the week. However, you won^t be able to enjoy a Railcard discount when travelling in the morning peak time Monday to Friday within London and the South East, including all South West Trains services to and from London Waterloo. The only exception to this rule is if you travel on Bank Holidays.

The times of morning off-peak services do vary by route, so it^s best to check with ticket office staff before buying your tickets."

You need to watch two factors; the times (and services) for which your ticket is valid, and the times that the SNR is valid. The definition of a.m. peak varies; some areas it is after 0930, others it is arrival at London Terminals pre 1000. The rules are slightly easier if the journey crosses the L&SE/NSE^▸ (Network South East) boundary.

There are some fast-ish evening down trains that are classed as OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter); also there is an animal called a "non-off peak single" that can be bought with a railcard for on-peak evening return. It can even be bought in advance, in the morning from your departure station with your outward ticket.

I keep a copy of the valid OP services with me so as to settle any debates with TTI's. Generally FGW^▸ (First Great Western) staff are excellent in their knowledge and approach to passengers (in my recent experience).

OTC

The following:

http://www.rssb.co.uk/sitecollectiondocuments/pdf/reports/research/T346_summary_rpt_final.pdf

covers the subject with a nice colour map on page 11.

OTC

See Reply No 17 (for brevity)

OTC

I really do take the point about existing plans not diverting WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) traffic.

I just question whether, with a wired route both ways, a freight would really go to the NW via Bletchley rather than via Coventry (The mileages, Oxford - Nuneaton are c63 vs c80, E&OE) especially if the WCML is busy and paths perhaps cost more.

I am still mystified as to why low ranking electrification schemes were approved and try to imagine reasons.

Regards,

OTC

The justification for HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) was firstly capacity, the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) will be (not is) full in the middle distance and secondly speed, with a high value being put on saving of business time. (A pity equal value was not put on commuters' time - we are the same people after all). The alternative of higher capacity and speed on the WCML was seen as prohibitive as widening in towns would need tunnelling (imagine 6 tracks through Ealing Broadway!), combined with the complication and disruption experienced in the last WCML upgrade.

Up to 2010, including the eRUS (Oct 2009) this seems to have been accepted, with little scent of the Electric Spine. The Oxford - Bedford reopening/wiring (option B18.1 App 4, p111) was stated to have Low to Medium benefits and Basingstoke - Coventry was listed as an add-on, after GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) (A13.4, App3, p105) but was ranked as Tier 3 (i.e low), Birmingham - Leeds/Doncaster by contrast (A19.2, App 3 P106) was ranked as Tier 1, even including our Banbury line. Wires didn't seem to be going South of Basingstoke.

What's changed?

Well, HS2 has risen in price, with half the first 70 miles in tunnel and sundry costly other concessions. Also, traffic projections must have lowered with the longer recession, as must the balance of flows. The "Spine" appears to deliver freights to Nuneaton, North of the critical Rugby stretch, and to Bedford for the MML^» (Midland Main Line. - about), North of the Thameslink services. In effect the WCML will have a pair of splints, to take the extra traffic. If sufficient slower traffic could be removed from (or not added to) the WCML, then new, tunnelled fast lines aren't necessary and we just need the formation and alignment improving for a more modest scheme. 

I'm not defending it, just reading the tea-leaves.

OTC

The lobbies in favour include the consultants, contractors etc who stand to gain, plus the regional lobbies (chambers of trade, local authorities, politicians, etc) who want the regional growth and Network Rail because its sums say do it. Against are a number of powerful lobbies across the Counties affected - these are important to the Govt majority and the Tories can't really afford a split with HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) being carried by Lab-Dems, plus the 30+ Bn borrowing needed.

The "Electric Spine" adds another uncertainty. If it proves to draw off a lot of freight from the South end of the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) then it may free up enough paths to allow delay or even cancellation. Nuneaton is even further North than Rugby, HS2's first target.

On the other hand, the (welcome) surrender to the Welsh assembly over Swansea electrification may point to Govt conceding that a HS^▸ (High Speed (short for HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) High Speed Services)) route to Scotland (as well as the Regions) is also needed to help save the Union.

Too close to call, for me.


OTC

......and the 1957 to Banbury  was delayed (c20min all-in). It was advertised very close to its final departure.... from 13!. The large crowd duly tried to hurry down but were baulked by the new barriers. The more nimble found the train (front 3 only!) after pushing through the already crowded platform (waiting for the rear 3 car set doors to open) with a harrassed dispatcher whistling urgently. The display inside the train said that Reading was the last stop....

The driver did make good time - exactly 40s between each 1/4 mile post - 90mph.

Glad I'd not paid full fare.

OTC

The extent of the electrification projects is shown on the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) map:

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/hlos-2012/map-all-schemes.pdf

This confirms not only the Valleys + Cardiff but also Basingstoke - Reading, Oxford - Coventry (and Nuneaton), Oxford - Bedford and the Thames Valley branches

Remarkable. No short diesel IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)'s now needed for South Wales trains. Cross Country trains to North West entirely electric (Scotland, Manchester, to Southampton). It could even mean wires South of Basingstoke.

On the down side, the Erewash Valley line is omitted as is anything North of Sheffield, so a Yorkshire/Northern freight spine is nonsense. TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express) is extended to Selby (to give 2nd access to ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) from Leeds and also for Yorks Metro stopping services), but not to Hull.

So better than we expected for the Sunny (and wet) South but mixed results further North. Perhaps the rail system there needs more basic upgrades, (like the Manchester Hub) before wires are appropriate.

Any inside knowledge?

OTC

Interesting looking at the sources of this "announcement".

The Guardian article probably comes from a Lib-Dem leak.

There is also something in RailNews:

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2012/07/14-hope-grows-for-midland-main.html

This mentions "industry sources" and mentions wiring North of Sheffield.

Could the mention of Swansea betoken a change of heart or just journalists repeating last year's copy?

OTC

I remember 2 decades ago when Heathrow Express was being planned that many (including little me) wrote letters etc urging that a Western curve be built at Airport Junction. Typically both the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) and MP^▸ (Member of Parliament)'s dismissed these calls....

Remember the tunnel collapse?

OTC

Hmmmm.

If the Midland main Line scheme (A19.1 in the electrification RUS^▸ (Route Utilisation Strategy)) is given the go-ahead, i.e. allowed to go forward in the GRIP^▸ (Guide to Railway Investment Projects) process, it will be interesting to read in the tea leaves what the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) is really thinking. MML^» (Midland Main Line. - about) was stated to have a better return than our GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) but how extensive will the wiring/capacity schemes be? Will there be a "Swansea chop" in the Midlands?

Watch out for whether both Trent Valley and Derby routes to Sheffield are included, also whether much 4 track is reinstated and the Corby and Matlock branches are wired. Yorkshire PTA^▸ (Passenger Transport Authority)'s are now keen on sparks so it's possible they may get Sheffield - Moorthorpe (for Leeds) as well. Dft isn't that good at Geography so NR^» (Network Rail - home page) may fix things.

It's too much to hope for all XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) as well but as an outside, add-on wiring from Basingstoke to Coventry/B'ham (via Oxford) would allow all the NW-South Coast "XC" to go electric. Perhaps we'd get our Liverpools and Glasgows back in our glitzy new Reading General.

Politically, wiring announcements before Summer hols would leave a good taste when HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) was faltering. Also Nick (or is it Norman) Clegg is a Sheffield MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) and looks vulnerable. So back to the armchair to listen to the Home Service....


OTC

Good to have first class scheme and publicity. Usually it's one or the other.

As an aside does anyone know why NR^» (Network Rail - home page) didn't opt for a simple modern overall roof or train shed, like at Leeds City?

The platform canopies and escalator covers look very complicated

OTC

Looks like NR^» (Network Rail - home page) are rightly fed up with the locals risking all.

Almost the opposite of "use it or lose it"

I'm amazed the crossing at Wokingham hasn't caused more trouble, with masses of pedestrians and cars having to queue across the LC^▸ (Level Crossing) to reach the roundabout 20 yards to the North. It does have supervision though.

OTC

Does this mean that Didcot needs re-doing already?

OTC

This isn't exactly new. City tramways did it quite safely for years and still do in favoured towns. Clearances, braking distances and sight lines need to be checked as do top speeds which probably means special rail vehicles.

Otherwise it's only Diesel LRT.

OTC