'Outrage over rail fare fine' for Exmouth to Exeter journey

[whole diary]

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

Just a different outlook, maybe i've not read the article fully... But is it possible these passengers didn't know of the existence of the TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine)??

Yes it is mate but only if they ignore all the posters and walk straight past the machine, this does happen but not sure the blame can be passed to the toc for this, it's similar to getting caught speeding and your defence being you didn't read the highway code 

[Chris from Nailsea]

Just a different outlook, maybe i've not read the article fully... But is it possible these passengers didn't know of the existence of the TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine)??

From my original post:

There is an automated ticket machine at Exmouth station, but Karen says she did not think to use this as she had always previously paid the conductor, and, as the main station building was closed for the evening, she had parked her car in the car park and walked straight on to the platform without going past it.

 

[chrisoates]

Just a different outlook, maybe i've not read the article fully... But is it possible these passengers didn't know of the existence of the TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine)??

From my original post:

There is an automated ticket machine at Exmouth station, but Karen says she did not think to use this as she had always previously paid the conductor, and, as the main station building was closed for the evening, she had parked her car in the car park and walked straight on to the platform without going past it.

 

Confusingly...

The TVM is available when the Station is closed http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/01/11/26/1112673_95bd6cf0.jpg

but

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) says it isn't

Ticket office opening
Monday-Saturday 07:10-15:55
Sunday Closed
Monday-Friday 07:10-15:55
Saturday 07:10-15:55
Self-service machines
Yes
Collect from counter
Yes
Collect from machine
Yes A ticket machine is available during the hours that the station is staffed and is located in the booking hall. The machine can sell tickets to all mainland destinations and will accept main credit/debit cards and cash.
Station entrance
Penalty fares
Penalty Fares apply to journeys from Exmouth station when travelling with:
First Great Western

[EBrown]

Pangbourne does have a booking office and TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) though.

...

You've been given plenty of opportunities to 'buy before you board' at Pangbourne.

I didn't mention clearly that I normally travel after the ticket office is closed, the TVM doesn't take cash [I do double check] (which is always my payment method). I also seek to pay-on-board and I have a lovely letter from FGW^▸ (First Great Western) acknowledging the problem.

I'm not stupid enough to miss the ticket office - It is my local station (Well, between that and Theale).

A rather blurry picture I took showing the PTT^▸ (Public Time-Table) wasn't on [Outside of station office hours] - I haven't been given a reason for that, but one assumes if thieves target TVMs they also target PTTs.


The letter I have says:

[Snip]your intentions to us are good and that you would never have purposefully avoided your fare. As a customer, it is not your responsibility to justify your actions, when we didn't give you chance to pay for a ticket. We should always be treating you as innocent until proven guilty, and not the other way around. [Snip]

I'm aware that I would be eligible for a Penalty Fare if I tried to pay by card at Reading excess, but I don't.

[End of me justifying my actions.]

[The SprinterMeister]

From my original post:

A Littleham social worker has complained after she and her friends were fined for fare dodging on a train between Exmouth and Exeter.

Karen Fereday, of Littleham Road, says the incident happened when she and two friends caught a 6.51pm train on a Saturday night.

From National Rail:

Ticket Office
Monday-Friday 07:50-18:15
Saturday 07:50-18:15
Sunday Closed

So the ticket office at Exeter would have been closed when they walked past it. 

The one upstairs may be closed, the one at platform level is open all the time the station is open to traffic as I understand it..

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

I thought that also... But wanted to hear from someone else to confirm

[Milky Bar Kid]

I think the quicker people start to learn the railways do NOT operate a "use now, pay later" scheme the better, the excuse of the guard not selling tickets etc is poor!! its been proved in court many times as "intent" as they were only willing to purchase a ticket when challenged. The responsibility remains with the passenger to seek the conductor and NOT vice versa.

[BerkshireBugsy]

I think the quicker people start to learn the railways do NOT operate a "use now, pay later" scheme the better, the excuse of the guard not selling tickets etc is poor!! its been proved in court many times as "intent" as they were only willing to purchase a ticket when challenged. The responsibility remains with the passenger to seek the conductor and NOT vice versa.

So are you saying that if, for example, it is not possible for a passenger to buy a ticket at their station of departure they should not board the train? At my local station for example the ticket office is only open a few hours a day and the tvm does not accept cash.

[EBrown]

I think the quicker people start to learn the railways do NOT operate a "use now, pay later" scheme the better, the excuse of the guard not selling tickets etc is poor!! its been proved in court many times as "intent" as they were only willing to purchase a ticket when challenged. The responsibility remains with the passenger to seek the conductor and NOT vice versa.

So are you saying that if, for example, it is not possible for a passenger to buy a ticket at their station of departure they should not board the train? At my local station for example the ticket office is only open a few hours a day and the tvm does not accept cash.

Thatcham has a PTT^▸ (Public Time-Table) I think, so you should use that next, if it is on. Otherwise, board the train. You do then have to find the Guard/TM^‡(resolve)/RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) to purchase the ticket.

[BerkshireBugsy]

I think the quicker people start to learn the railways do NOT operate a "use now, pay later" scheme the better, the excuse of the guard not selling tickets etc is poor!! its been proved in court many times as "intent" as they were only willing to purchase a ticket when challenged. The responsibility remains with the passenger to seek the conductor and NOT vice versa.

So are you saying that if, for example, it is not possible for a passenger to buy a ticket at their station of departure they should not board the train? At my local station for example the ticket office is only open a few hours a day and the tvm does not accept cash.

Thatcham has a PTT^▸ (Public Time-Table) I think, so you should use that next, if it is on. Otherwise, board the train. You do then have to find the Guard/TM^‡(resolve)/RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) to purchase the ticket.

<SoapBox>
I don't know what a PTT is BUT on the morning service I use there have only been ticket checks 3 times in the last 30 months which is why it is regarded as a free service between certain stations on the line. As someone who has a railcard wallet full of old weekly tickets (and a current one I must add!) it really annoys me that others can use the service for nothing

</SoapBox>

[EBrown]

<SoapBox>
I don't know what a PTT^▸ (Public Time-Table) is BUT on the morning service I use there have only been ticket checks 3 times in the last 30 months which is why it is regarded as a free service between certain stations on the line. As someone who has a railcard wallet full of old weekly tickets (and a current one I must add!) it really annoys me that others can use the service for nothing
</SoapBox>

Permit to Travel (machine).


On second thoughts, I don't think there is a PTT at Thatcham.

[BerkshireBugsy]

Ahh thanks for clarifying...I don't think there is onebof those at thatcham - I think it would be difficult  to hide!

[TonyK]

I have travelled by rail from Rome. Fares, like taxes, are seen as voluntary, or misguided philanthropy, by most travellers, even though they are so cheap. Yet, it is a genuine saving to get caught now and again if the fare is a tenner, the penalty fare ^40, and you only get caught every fifth ride. The way forward must include season tickets that make it cheaper to pay in advance than pay daily, and to make it easier to pay for the ride.

[noddingdonkey]

argument abandoned in light of new evidence from chris 

... but the 8 years comment is rubbish, i have bought a devon day ranger from that window within the last year!

Have just been up to Central and spoken to the Duty supervisor. He says the window we are talking about at the bottom of the stairs on platform 2 is a customer help desk and hasn't been used for selling tickets since the Sportis machine was removed 'over 8 years ago' The only outlet for staffed ticket sales is the main booking hall or the gateline. Perhaps it was a gateline operative you bought your ranger from. It certainly wasn't the platform staff.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

It did have stubs on the ticket, so must have been from a portable machine