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Author Topic: FirstGroup trumps Virgin as frontrunner for WCML franchise (guardian 29/07/2012)  (Read 47317 times)
Btline
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« Reply #45 on: August 02, 2012, 19:41:51 »

Surely National Express can't win anything after the NXEC (National Express East Coast) debacle! Shocked

I'm for First for GW (Great Western) (as I don't want Arriva/NX and Stagecoach = South West Monopoly) as I believe they are (slowly) getting better; it would be a shame for the improvements momentum to be ruined.

I'm for Virgin for WC (Wiltshire Council (Unitary Authority)) and EC (as I believe they offer the best customer service, vital for such routes). There is no competition issue on EC/WC as they serve entirely differnent markets.
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JayMac
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« Reply #46 on: August 02, 2012, 19:55:36 »

If there were competition concerns why did the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) redraw the Great Western franchise to include the Thames Trains and Wessex franchises into one super franchise?



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« Reply #47 on: August 02, 2012, 20:04:27 »

I'm for Virgin ... (as I believe they offer the best customer service, vital for such routes).
You have seen the complaints per 100000 journeys right? I'll give you a clue; Virgin are better than EC by 69 complaints, the next placed competitor is Trans Pennine Express almost 180 complaints less.

Figures quoted for 2011-2012, full railway year.
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« Reply #48 on: August 03, 2012, 13:05:21 »

I'm for Virgin ... (as I believe they offer the best customer service, vital for such routes).
You have seen the complaints per 100000 journeys right? I'll give you a clue; Virgin are better than EC by 69 complaints, the next placed competitor is Trans Pennine Express almost 180 complaints less.

Figures quoted for 2011-2012, full railway year.

I agree - Support for Virgin shows you really can fool some of the people all of the time
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JayMac
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« Reply #49 on: August 07, 2012, 19:42:09 »

From The Telegraph:

Quote
Threat to Richard Branson^s train empire
Virgin^s presence on Britain^s rail network could be derailed as FirstGroup offers ^1bn more for the West Coast franchise.

No one lobbies like Sir Richard Branson. So, when the Virgin king fires off letters of complaint to the Government even before it^s announced the winner of a bid, it^s easy to be dismissive.

This time, though, he may have a point. If the crackles across the station loudspeakers are right, Virgin is about to be kicked off Britain^s railways after losing the battle for the West Coast main line ^ the London to Glasgow service it has run with partner Stagecoach for the past 15 years.

Virgin Rail, 51pc-owned by Sir Richard and 49pc by Stagecoach, looks to have been comprehensively outbid by FirstGroup in the fight for the 14-year West Coast contract starting in December.

The Virgin founder is spitting tacks, as is clear from his letter to the Transport Secretary, Justine Greening, and copied to David Cameron. But not just because he thinks he^s lost. It^s the thought he^s been done over by an ^unrealistic^ bid.

In short, he is playing the East Coast main line card, claiming the Government risks a re-run of the bid fiascos on that franchise. First GNER (Great North Eastern Railways) in 2005 and then National Express two years later triumphed at the bid stage, only to career swiftly into the buffers when their heroic revenue forecasts failed to materialise. Both walked out on their contracts. The result was a clean-up job for the taxpayer from which the East Coast is yet to recover. In both cases, Virgin Rail was a defeated rival bidder. As Sir Richard said in his letter, the company had made ^realistic bids after an extremely expensive tendering process^ only to be beaten by rivals that came ^nowhere close to delivering their promised plan^.

This time round, Virgin has offered to pay the Government about ^6bn over 14 years to retain the West Coast line ^ FirstGroup is thought to have bid around ^7bn. But rail franchise bids are not as straightforward as they look. Not least one as big as this ^ the first awarded under the Coalition^s new rail franchising policy.

The stakes are high, and not just for Virgin. Fresh from a profits warning, and with the market steamed up about its overly-geared balance sheet, FirstGroup^s under-fire chairman, Martin Gilbert, is desperate for some good news. Meanwhile, the Government is cash-strapped. These are just the sort of circumstances for a racy bid ^ even without Sir Richard^s huffing and puffing.

To understand what^s going on, it helps to know that with rail franchise bids no money changes hands upfront. Bidders undertake to deliver a certain level of performance, such as service frequencies or station upgrades. Then, after forecasting revenues and costs, they offer to pay a yearly amount to run the service.

But how can the Government be sure this will ever arrive? It asks for two things. Bidders must lodge a ^performance bond^ that is forfeited if the operator defaults, and a ^shareholder loan^, which is supposed to increase with the riskiness of the bid. When National Express ducked out of the East Coast, it lost its ^32m bond and ^40m loan ^ though the penalty was seen as derisory given that it bid ^1.4bn for the franchise.

The Government is now taking a harder line. On the West Coast, the bond is expected to be around ^70m. The important question is how big a loan the Government demands. There is talk it could request around ^300m from FirstGroup. But, crucially, that^s not cash. Bidders have to give only a guarantee with a credit rating of A-, proving they can pay out.

Sir Richard claims the only way FirstGroup can justify its bid is to ^drastically cut the quality of services^. The unions fear as many as 800 job cuts, including guards, catering and station staff. But, as Nomura analyst Mark McVicar says: ^You are only playing with 20pc-30pc of the cost base, max, because of all the fixed costs.^

Broadly, much of the remaining disparity between bids turns on forecasts of passenger volumes and fares ^ numbers that the Channel Tunnel, its fast rail link HS1 (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel) and the East Coast have all shown to be notoriously hard to predict. Current volumes are 30m passengers a year ^ up from 14m seven years ago, boosted by the snazzy Pendolino tilting trains.

The current and new West Coast franchises are not directly comparable. But even Sir Richard^s promised payment is punchy. In the year to March 31, Virgin Rail had ^938m revenues and ^34.4m operating profits. It is currently paying ^160m a year to run the service. So, if FirstGroup pays ^7bn, that is an average of ^500m a year.

One senior figure at a rival transport group said: ^Virgin Rail^s bid is already aggressive. Yet FirstGroup is said to be bidding ^1bn more. We think that requires 8.5pc to 9pc growth every year for 14 years off the back of a double-dip recession. That just beggars belief.^

As if to reinforce the point, the two other shortlisted bidders ^ France^s SNCF (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways) and Holland^s Abellio ^ are thought to have offered ^5bn.

But the quantum only tells half the story. The viability of a rail franchise also depends on the profile of premium payments. Typically, bidders pay little in the early years of the contract when investment is at its highest, with the payments cranking up towards the end. It is this ratchet which kills ill-judged bids.

Here, FirstGroup has form. In May last year, it controversially handed back its First Great Western rail franchise three years early to avoid more than ^800m in payments to the taxpayer.

To be clear, FirstGroup did nothing wrong. When it signed the contract in April 2006, it negotiated something unique in the rail industry: a break-clause, where it could opt out of the 10-year contract after seven years without penalties. The upshot was that, of the ^1.13bn FirstGroup agreed to pay, ^826m never materialised as it fell in the final three years.

All that^s provided more fuel for the critics. They see how FirstGroup^s board is under pressure from shareholders, not least given the risk that it loses the auctions for the new Great Western and First Capital Connect franchises.

So, as HSBC analyst Joe Thomas notes, FirstGroup has an ^incentive to overpay^. He believes its ^weak finances mean it could look to win rail contracts to bolster its balance sheet^. Indeed, FirstGroup cannot afford to lose rail earnings without risking breaching its earnings covenants.

Such pressures may push FirstGroup to bid big for the West Coast and cut costs early on, generating decent earnings growth. There is, of course, a risk things go wrong down the track, not least with the new franchise model recompensing bidders only if the Government^s GDP forecasts ^ on which they are partly based ^ are out by a colossal 5pc. But, by then, Gilbert will have retired, while chief executive Tim O^Toole may be back in his native America. So, even if the shareholder loan gets called in, it won^t be their problem.

What of the Government? The Department for Transport has not always picked the highest bidder. But, with a novice such as Greening in charge ^ under immense pressure from the Treasury to maximise franchise proceeds to fund other rail projects ^ it will be hard to reject a ^7bn bid for a ^6bn one. Besides, given the DfT» (Department for Transport - about)^s revolving door, if the franchise fails, Greening^s likely to be gone.

Neither FirstGroup nor the Government would comment, though McVicar says: ^I don^t think O^Toole^s the sort of guy to bid like that.^

But, as one rival executive said: ^If this bid plays out like I think it might, it will prove so outrageously cynical as to boggle the mind.^ It^s certainly boggling Sir Richard^s.
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JayMac
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« Reply #50 on: August 07, 2012, 20:04:20 »

Another interesting development is that First Group's Bid Director, Richard Parry, has just been made a Director of First West Coast Ltd. Would seem to be a little premature unless First Group already know they have the ICWC (InterCity West Coast) franchise in the bag. Tellingly, Andrew James, who tends to be a director of the many First Group UK (United Kingdom) Rail companies that are dormant, resigned as a director of First West Coast Ltd the same day Richard Parry was appointed.

Why would you take on the directorship of a company that could remain dormant?
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« Reply #51 on: August 07, 2012, 20:35:23 »

Iexpect that the bidders may well have been told already.
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eightf48544
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« Reply #52 on: August 08, 2012, 08:25:36 »

Reading through this thread it just highlights the absurbity of the whole franchsing process.

I can well imagine the bearded one being miffed if he loses WCML (West Coast Main Line). Whatever his faults he's manged to run through pretty rough water and keep the railway running. first there was the ill fated Railtrack upgrade then the aftermarth of Hatfield then the introduction of the Pendelinos and their subsequent lengthening up to 11 cars which alone must be a sign of success.

Having just done Euston Stoke and return in an hour and bit in preference to 21/2 hours in a Vomiter (not one of his successes) direct to Reading they are pretty good trains. Both trains were pretty full despite being Off Peak. Although they still have too many airline seats not aligned with the windows,  although I had a table going down and I was in U coming up one of new strengthening coaches (to 11) and the spacing wasn't bad, better than a First HST (High Speed Train).

Having lost CC allegedly due to DaFT» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) error I can see him resorting resorting to the courts over WCML.

Added 9/8. Rumour from a semi reliable source that First have it in the bag
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 20:49:03 by eightf48544 » Logged
JayMac
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« Reply #53 on: August 10, 2012, 18:28:06 »

I think I can confidently say it's definitely in the bag. For all the leaks, sources and reports to be wrong would be most unlikely.

RAIL magazine's Philip Haigh tweeted this earlier today:

Quote
Apparently a Virgin West Coast guard has just said over a 390 tannoy that First is "unfortunately" taking over.


Possible last ditch throw of the dice from Virgin:
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/338801/Virgin-ups-stakes-in-West-Coast-line-fight
Although I think this is wishful thinking on the part of the journalist. Bids have already been submitted and can't be altered this late in the day. Virgin may have costed options for Blackpool and Shrewsbury in their bid, but what's to say the other bidders haven't also done so?

Another media outlet is saying that Virgin 'are no longer in active talks with the DfT» (Department for Transport - about)':
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2012/08/10/virgin-set-to-lose-liverpool-london-rail-line-franchise-to-first-group-100252-31591097/
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ellendune
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« Reply #54 on: August 10, 2012, 19:29:42 »

All sorts of speculation as to how they have won it.  I guess we will just have to wait and see for the details to come out.
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Btline
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« Reply #55 on: August 10, 2012, 20:41:51 »

Why does everything get leaked or reported these days. Why can't we just have the announcement?
It was the same with HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)).

Anyway, I hope First do a good job and DON'T plaster dynamic lines over the Pendos! They look better in silver.
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broadgage
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« Reply #56 on: August 11, 2012, 01:24:45 »

Presuming that First Group have got the west coast franchise, will they re-introduce any proper Pullman restaurants ?
The two return services a day offered on Great western is a pretty paltry offering
 in terms of numbers though excellent in qaulity.

West coast being a larger franchise, they might manage 4 return restaurants a day ?

On a more negative note, I wonder what reductions in train lengths or other downgrades in qaulity are planned.
This may seem unlikely, but remember that the first action of the new franchisee of services from London Liverpool street was to replace 12 car trains with 8 car.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #57 on: August 11, 2012, 02:09:17 »

The West Coast franchise has a fairly fixed fleet of rolling stock with some recently lengthened Class 390 Pendolinos up from 9 car to 11 car. Also the fleet of Class 221 Super Voyagers is now a uniform 5 car length with the previous 4 car units all having been lengthened.

I very much doubt First West Coast Ltd (t/a as Horizon Trains (maybe.... but if so you heard it here first!)) will be shortening these trains. It's different to your Greater Anglia comparison. There they were removing an entire train from 3x 4 car EMU (Electric Multiple Unit) sets. That meant a considerable saving in leasing and track access charges.

I see no benefit in pulling out the odd carriage from a fixed formation. Less practical and minimal cost savings I suspect.

I like the idea though of more Pullman services, if the Pendolino kitchens are suitable for such food to be freshly prepared.

Perhaps also a returned of named trains on the WCML (West Coast Main Line) such as the Caledonian, Coronation Scot and Manchester/Liverpool Pullman.
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« Reply #58 on: August 11, 2012, 09:08:16 »

The Pendolinos have the largest Kitchens on any train in Europe, so I expect they can cope!

According to insiders, Branson is "fuming" and planning to appeal. The sources also say that fares will rise hugely from 2020 to cope with crowds (saw it in the papers). Virgin have put in a last minute offer to run to Shrewsbury and Blackpool, but many fear it is too late.

firstwestcoast.com has been registered.
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« Reply #59 on: August 11, 2012, 10:40:48 »

So, if First have won ICWC (InterCity West Coast), were they one of the bidders planning to replace Voyagers with extra Pendolinos (and hence, I assume, paying for OHLE from Crewe to Chester)? Would be interesting, the operator of the TOC (Train Operating Company) the insane bi-mode IEP (Intercity Express Program / Project.) was developed for running Holyhead services with EMUs (Electric Multiple Unit) and attaching diesel locos at Chester...
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