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Author Topic: Helicopter service - Penzance to Isles of Scilly  (Read 60725 times)
TonyK
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« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2012, 17:50:52 »

I was thinking of the fearful flyer who had already booked the shortest possible crossing, or the hard-up, who thought he would save ^15 a head by driving to Lands End, but your point is well made!
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« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2012, 22:27:39 »

Again, due to the weather, any potential for a nose/dashboard interface at Land's End Airport has been averted:

From the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

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Waterlogged runway closes Land's End Airport

Land's End Airport in Cornwall has been closed due to a waterlogged runway.

Skybus, which provides flights from the airport to the Isles of Scilly as well as scenic flights, said it had closed following torrential rain.

The company said all passengers had been informed and were being transported to Newquay Airport.

The condition of the runway is due to be reviewed on Monday. There are no flights scheduled for Sunday.

The grass runway was reopened last weekend after being closed for more than a week following heavy rain earlier in the month.

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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2012, 22:46:54 »

... a nose/dashboard interface ...

... or a dashboard-in-yer-face ... ?  Grin
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
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« Reply #48 on: January 08, 2013, 14:06:12 »

Again, the airport at Land's End has closed due to weather:

From the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Quote
Waterlogged runway halts Isles of Scilly flights from Land's End

Flights to the Isles of Scilly are not flying from Land's End because of runway problems, an airline says.

Skybus passengers are being transported to Newquay Airport for services because of a waterlogged runway at Land's End, managers said.

However, Newquay Airport also saw disruption to flights on Tuesday morning because of low cloud over the islands.

The Land's End runway will be surveyed again on Wednesday, the company said.

Passengers have been advised to check in as normal.

Recent spells of prolonged heavy rain over the past several weeks have impacted on operations at Land's End.

The islands, which have a population of 2,200, have flights six days a week in good weather. A passenger ferry, the Scillonian, only runs in the summer.
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Thatcham Crossing
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« Reply #49 on: January 08, 2013, 22:50:07 »

This trouble at St Just must be costing Skybus a fortune.

They own the airfield, so presumably don't charge themselves landing/parking/handling fees.

At NQY (Newquay (Station)), I imagine they will have to pay all of these, plus the additional cost of the longer flights between there and St. Mary's.

Not sustainable in the long term, I would suggest.

About 800 metres of something harder could be needed at St. Just?
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LiskeardRich
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« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2013, 19:28:58 »

This trouble at St Just must be costing Skybus a fortune.

They own the airfield, so presumably don't charge themselves landing/parking/handling fees.

At NQY (Newquay (Station)), I imagine they will have to pay all of these, plus the additional cost of the longer flights between there and St. Mary's.

Not sustainable in the long term, I would suggest.

About 800 metres of something harder could be needed at St. Just?

And not forgetting they are bussing passengers from St Just to Newquay, and as asked previously what about the ^5 passenger levy? Not sure if this applies, as it is something paid on check in at Newquay, and St Just passengers need to book in at St Just
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TonyK
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« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2013, 20:44:35 »

This trouble at St Just must be costing Skybus a fortune.

They own the airfield, so presumably don't charge themselves landing/parking/handling fees.

At NQY (Newquay (Station)), I imagine they will have to pay all of these, plus the additional cost of the longer flights between there and St. Mary's.

Not sustainable in the long term, I would suggest.

About 800 metres of something harder could be needed at St. Just?

They kind of own the airfield. The operator is Westward Airways Ltd, separate from Skybus, but both are owned by the Isles of Scilly Steamship Company. Westward used to run the Lands End Flying School, but stopped that part of their operations recently. They sold their two Cessna 152s, but retained the other two aircraft they own, Cessna 172s. These will be transferred to Skybus to use for pleasure flights under their operators' licence.

Whilst building a solid runway isn't quite as simple as it sounds, 800m is probably enough. Both the Dash 6 and the Islander, the types operated by Skybus, can get off the floor to 50 feet and land from the same height in under 400m. 800m would allow for water on the runway, hot weather, crosswinds, and all the other things that potentially can extend the take-off run of an aircraft.

Grass has its advantages though, when it isn't waterlogged. Whilst you wouldn't want to try it in an A380, it is softer on the aircraft, and helps with braking. The Skybus planes probably only use their brakes for parking, having reversible pitch propellors to slow down, or even go backwards. Grass runways need frequent maintenance, but of the gardening type. The grass should be kept short, and any holes that appear should be dealt with at once.

If Skybus were to lay asphalt or concrete, they would probably need planning permission. Because it is to be used for public transport flights, it would also need the CAA» (Civil Aviation Authority - about)'s blessing. Civil Aviation Publication CAP 791 is the document that shows how complex a process this would be. It would certainly be seen as a major change to the infrastructure, and they would have to give plenty of notice of intention to proceed. For changes to runway lighting, the CAA reckons on a lead-in time of six months, so a plan for a new runway would need no shorter period of notice. The CAA, who charge for their services, would be involved at every step of the process, to ensure compliance with agreed plans, and to save the developer the expense of having to rip up and start again anything that does not meet the exacting standards demanded of a licensed aerodrome.

Although the runways at EGHC are to some extent separate, I cannot see how the airport could continue to operate with the work in progress. When the concrete / ashpalt is dry, there would need to be a period of inspection and testing, plus amendment of procedures, the Aeronatical Infromation Publications,and any other ancillary works.

I reckon it could be done within 18 months, by which time it may have stopped raining. I think a few diversions to Newquay will be preferable. If a hard runway is wanted, building a new airport somewhere close by may be the better option.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 19:39:15 by Four Track, Now! » Logged

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« Reply #52 on: January 16, 2013, 21:35:59 »

An update, from the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Quote
Plastic mats to strengthen Land's End runway

Plastic matting is to be installed over the grass surface of the Land's End runway to allow flights to resume between the Isles of Scilly.

Flights have been redirected to Newquay Airport since mid December due to heavy rain over the last month.

The Isles of Scilly Steam Ship Company's Skybus service said the matting would help to "reinforce the surface". The plastic matting will be installed over the next few weeks.

The company said it was working with the Council of the Isles of Scilly on a longer term solution by securing the necessary money to pay for an upgrade to the runway.

After the withdrawal of the helicopter service from Penzance, Skybus has become the last link from Cornwall to the Isles of Scilly.

The islands, which have a population of 2,200, have flights six days a week in good weather. A passenger ferry, the Scillonian, only runs in the summer.

Mike Hicks, the chairman of the Council of the Isles of Scilly, said he was "already worried" about next winter. He plans to meet with the Isles of Scilly Steamship Company to discuss the possibility of the major Scillonian re-fit being speeded up so the ferry can sail next Christmas.
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
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« Reply #53 on: March 25, 2013, 23:56:38 »

A further update, from the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

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Isles of Scilly ferry service restarts after ^2m refit

The Isles of Scilly's only passenger ferry service has restarted following a ^2m refit.

Improvements to the Scillonian 3 include new flooring, lighting and catering facilities.

Islanders have been calling for the service, which operates for just seven months a year, to run all year round.

There have been concerns about transport links after the helicopter service ended in October and Skybus flights were disrupted by bad weather.

In October money to subsidise an Isles of Scilly helicopter link was ruled out by Transport Minister Norman Baker.
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
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« Reply #54 on: April 07, 2013, 21:18:31 »

From the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Quote
Transatlantic journey for small Isles of Scilly plane


Skybus already has three De Havilland Twin Otters

The company that operates flights from Land's End to the Isles of Scilly has had to adapt a new plane it is adding to its fleet.

Skybus acquired the De Havilland plane in Canada, but with a normal range of 650 miles (1,046km), a giant fuel tank has had to be added. The 4,500-mile (7,242km) journey will take 26 flying hours, with fuelling stops in Greenland and Iceland.

The DH-6 Twin Otter was chosen for its short take off and landing capability.

Skybus already has three of the 19-seater Twin Otters in its fleet, plus three eight-seater Britten Norman Islanders.

The giant fuel tank - which is taking up half the plane's cabin space - will almost double the plane's range, so it can fly from Greenland and Iceland, then across the Atlantic. It will land at Prestwick Airport in Scotland, before making its final leg to Land's End Airport. The plane left Calgary on Saturday night and should arrive in the UK (United Kingdom) on Friday.

Skybus engineering manager Mick Yould, who has spent three weeks in Canada preparing the plane, said it was "a really tough piece of kit".

"We've planned the trip meticulously and made sure we've plenty of fuel to divert to alternative airports if the weather deteriorates," Mr Yould said.

The Isles of Scilly Steamship Group, which owns and operates Skybus, said having a fourth Twin Otter would give it more flexibility on its routes from Exeter, Newquay and Land's End.

"It's a great aircraft for us because of its short take off and landing capability, but they are not easy to get hold of because they are so popular, which is why we had to go to Canada," Skybus chief executive Jeff Marston said.
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
TonyK
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« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2013, 18:28:19 »

From the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Quote
Transatlantic journey for small Isles of Scilly plane


Skybus already has three De Havilland Twin Otters

The company that operates flights from Land's End to the Isles of Scilly has had to adapt a new plane it is adding to its fleet.

Skybus acquired the De Havilland plane in Canada, but with a normal range of 650 miles (1,046km), a giant fuel tank has had to be added. The 4,500-mile (7,242km) journey will take 26 flying hours, with fuelling stops in Greenland and Iceland.

The DH-6 Twin Otter was chosen for its short take off and landing capability.

Skybus already has three of the 19-seater Twin Otters in its fleet, plus three eight-seater Britten Norman Islanders.

The giant fuel tank - which is taking up half the plane's cabin space - will almost double the plane's range, so it can fly from Greenland and Iceland, then across the Atlantic. It will land at Prestwick Airport in Scotland, before making its final leg to Land's End Airport. The plane left Calgary on Saturday night and should arrive in the UK (United Kingdom) on Friday.

Skybus engineering manager Mick Yould, who has spent three weeks in Canada preparing the plane, said it was "a really tough piece of kit".

"We've planned the trip meticulously and made sure we've plenty of fuel to divert to alternative airports if the weather deteriorates," Mr Yould said.

The Isles of Scilly Steamship Group, which owns and operates Skybus, said having a fourth Twin Otter would give it more flexibility on its routes from Exeter, Newquay and Land's End.

"It's a great aircraft for us because of its short take off and landing capability, but they are not easy to get hold of because they are so popular, which is why we had to go to Canada," Skybus chief executive Jeff Marston said.

It may sound odd, but to quote Tom Jones, it's not unusual. Even light aircraft, like my formerly beloved Piper Cherokee, are routinely flown to their new destination. An auxilliary tank is usually fitted instead of the rear seat rather than in the luggage hold, to help with balance. Last stop on the American continent is often St Johns, Newfoundland, before the long hop to Greenland, then Reykavik, the often Prestwick. There are many specialist ferry companies that will do the job, which is not cheap.

Some pilots don't fancy the rigours of the North Atlantic in an unpressurised aircraft. The traditional way to get out of bumpy air is to climb, but you lose around 1 degree centigrade for every 500 feet, and icing quickly becomes an issue. The alternative is to head south to Florida, then over the Caribbean to Venezuela, then Brazil. The big hop then is to the Azores or even mainland Africa, and requires nerves of steel, as well as exceptional navigation skills. The biggest tank you can fit into the aircraft is called for - in aviation, you only have too much fuel if you are on fire.

Twin Otters are wonderful little aircraft. People I have spoken to who fly them for a job say they are very easy to fly, and extremely versatile. They take off and land in very little space, and are quite happy landing even on a beach. Time I went to the Scillies!
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« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2013, 22:12:10 »

As chance would have it Four Track, I find myself tonight in Reykjavik and only a stones-throw from the domestic airport. If the latest Skybus acquisition escapes the frozen clutches of Churchill, Manitoba (where it has been grounded due weather for the last 2 days), I may well see it here over the next few days on its way east.

We arrived up the road at Keflavik this morning and when we landed the weather was doing it's best to live up to the Icelandic stereotype of "4 seasons in one day", with driving snow and cloud "on the deck" on minute, and bright blue skies the next!

I understand this "Twotter" is being ferried by a guy with experience of flying them for The British Antarctic Survey, a person one would expect therefore to have lots of the kind of experience needed to undertake this kind of mission.

I've experienced these aircraft as a passenger (on scenic flights over the Grand Canyon) and would describe the experience as being a bit like flying in an oversized Cessna 172, albeit with an extra engine and a bit more speed!


« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 22:22:26 by Thatcham Crossing » Logged
TonyK
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« Reply #57 on: April 09, 2013, 23:20:24 »

I understand this "Twotter" is being ferried by a guy with experience of flying them for The British Antarctic Survey, a person one would expect therefore to have lots of the kind of experience needed to undertake this kind of mission.

To quote Benny the Ball: "OK TC(resolve)!". You may even try to cadge a crafty lift home. I have yet to visit Reykjavik, which explains why I can't spell it. BAS experience is perfect for a flight like this. It is over 1000 NM from St Johns Newfoundland to Nuuk on Greenland, and nearly as far again to Reykjaik. In a plane with a cruise speed of 150 knots, that gives a flight time in perfect weather of over 6 hours. Although the Twin Otter is equipped with quite sophisticated navigational equipment, it will still be a long shift. My own longest continuous spell behind the yoke is under 2 hours, and although I thoroughly enjoyed it, I was glad to climb out of the cockpit at the end. The crux will be the planning, and no good pilot would chance his arm in any weather with uncertainty built in. A number of ferry flights of all types of aircraft have come to sticky ends - Hawaii has seen bigger aircraft ditch within sight of shore after an unexpected headwind had eaten into the planned fuel stocks. So better to hang around for a couple of days to catch the right conditions than risk a plane with a $7 million price tag and a pilot with a beating heart. As aviators say on bad days: "Better to be down here wishing you were up there than up there wishing you were down here".

GPS has transformed trans-Atlantic aviation, but is less than 20 years old. Prior to that, it wasn't possible to be sure of your position with accuracy, nor to track an aircraft all the way across the Atlantic. Air Traffic controllers would dispatch a Boeing 747 into the unknown to the north-west of Scotland, and would only know it had got across the ocean safely when it contacted St Johns radar. Nothing is infallible, so your ferry pilot will be prepared for navigation using the dead-reckoning methods employed by Charles Lindbergh and others. Respect.

As an aside, my daughter spent 6 months working in the Falklands, and had a ride in the right-hand front seat of an Islander between Mount Pleasant and West Falkland. The pilot chose his own route, giving her and her colleagues a sightseeing tour rather than an A to B flight. It's dirty work, but someone has to do it. (Grrrr!)

A fellow club member and his wife undertook a ferry flight to bring a PA28 (or Piper Cherokee) from Larnaka to Bristol. The nearest landfall is a short hop to Turkey, but at the time they did it, aircraft originating in the Greek-speaking half of Cyprus were not allowed to land in either Northern Cyprus or Turkey, so their first leg was a buttock-clencher to Rhodes. The worst was the shortest - they checked out of their hotel in Albania, took off , then hit bad weather an hour over the Adriatic, and took the admirable decision to turn back, to the bemusement of the landlady who had seen them off earlier. Before you ask, they are both professional pilots by day -  he flies Airbuses, she all sorts of stuff, mainly in the executive jet category. A paradox maybe, but you can't hurry the fast way of getting round.
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« Reply #58 on: April 10, 2013, 21:49:56 »

This evening it looks like they are currently airborne over Hudson Bay, en-route to the next stop, which I think is due to be Iqaluit. So 2 long over-water legs next (including a crossing of Greenland) assuming they night-stop at Iqaluit tonight.

I've also visited the Falklands, and on one of my trips back in 2000, I met some of the BAS guys at Stanley Airport, with their Dash 7 - a four-engined turboprop, for the unfamiliar, and a type that Brymon Airways used to once operate between Plymouth/Newquay and Heathrow back in the day.

They were on the final leg of ferrying it from maintenance in Canada to the British Base at Rothera in Antarctica for the southern "summer", and had spent about 8 hours airborne that day trying to get there - they'd left Stanley that morning and after several hours flying south into extreme headwinds had had to turn back as they might have run out of fuel before they reached their destination, or at the very least been left with few options for diversion had it become unavailable late into the flight - it seemed like an epic story to me, but to them was just part and parcel of operations in remote and unforgiving parts of the world!

By the way, you can track where the Skybus Twotter is here https://share.delorme.com/DouglasCochrane
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« Reply #59 on: April 12, 2013, 16:03:47 »

This afternoon it looks as if G-ISSG is enroute between Greenland and Iceland at 12,000ft and with a groundspeed of around 200mph, which is quick for a Twotter and indicates that they must be picking up a decent tailwind.

The weather here in Reykjavik at 3pm GMT/UTC (1hr behind the UK (United Kingdom)) is clear and cold with a light northerly wind, and if the tracker is correct I would expect them to be on the island from their current position in maybe around 4 hours.

Update at 17.45 GMT - the Twotter has landed here in Reykjavik!
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 17:56:38 by Thatcham Crossing » Logged
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