Newquay Line Services

[whole diary]

[Cornubian]

I have been trying to get an answer from Industry insiders for quite sometime (years), to no avail, as to why the last service from Newquay to Par is timed to arrive at 22.13, 3 minutes after the 22.10 departure for Penzance. This then leaves any potential passengers approximately an hour and twenty minutes wait for west bound stations, for the last down service. In addition to this the last departure from Plymouth (Mon -Thur) can be held for an hour waiting the connection from Paddington, so this has the potential for being a 2 hour 20 minute wait. This hardly seems conducive in providing a meaningful timetabled service, which has resulted in little patronage on the last service back to Par.

Whilst other lines seem to have had the support of the Devon & Cornwall Rail Partnership and to a certain degree Focal^▸ (Friends of the Atlantic Coast Line [Newquay]) has achieved some improvements to services on the Newquay branch, unfortunately it does seem to suffer with the whims of rail companies and an ineffective transport policy (my opinion) of Cornwall Council.

In addition to this the first service was lost last year (again) with the unit being utilised to run an extra service from Exeter to Plymouth. Whilst the withdrawal of this service was due to (allegedly) poor loadings,  (the return working always carried more passengers than the first couple of services on the Looe branch do now for instance, the new service from Exeter arrives at Plymouth too early for the commuters and generally has more Traincrew travelling on it to Plymouth than passengers. Then departs Plymouth usually with no more than 10 passengers towards Par, in front of 08.20 Ply-Pnz.

I would be interested to hear other opinions whether others agree or not, that the Newquay branch has suffered from neglect, to a certain degree in it's service provision.

[grahame]

I'm guessing here - to help a discussion start. 16:06 ex Paddington, 20:22 at Par. Connects on at 20:28 to Newquay at 21:20. 21:26 from Newquay arrives Par 22:16 (according to current public timetable). To then connect with 22:10 to Penzance at Par, it would need to arrive there by 22:05 - 11 minutes earlier than it does now, and I don't see where that 11 minutes would easily and robustly be found.

[smokey]

Well the first Problem with the Newquay Branch is that it goes to Nowhere, Par is hardly a centre of Mass population:
The wrong line to Newquay was closed back in 1963, I just wonder how many trains would run from Truro via St Agnes and Perranporth to Newquay and Back each day today.

However back to the point, firstly with track improvments between Par and Newquay line speeds have been raised, HST^▸ (High Speed Train) services have been arriving Newquay more than 15 minutes EARLY (if on time from Par).
I expect Local services can also have a minute or two taken off Journey times:
So as one measure, take the Ivybridge and Saltash stops out of the 16:06 ex Padington and insert these into the 15:06 ex Paddington, making I would suggest the Ivybridge and Saltash stops at better timings for public use (roughly at 18:12 & 18:40) that should bring the 16:06 into Par at 20:17 then a forward train at 20:22 arrive Newquay at 21:12 returning at 21:15 arriving Par at 22:05
However an even better idea to me is make the last Newquay train a Penzance Service on return that can run at present timings arrive Par at 22:16 depart at 22:20 calling all stations to Penzance, making a Truro or Redruth connection off the 18:06 Golden Hind for Camborne, Hayle, and St Erth.

[Cornubian]

Thank you for the replies so far.

When the 16.06 x Padd arrives at Par (hopefully on time), the Newquay unit doesn't depart for another 6 minutes, allowing passengers to cross over, on average the unit sits in the platform for 3 minutes or longer waiting for departure time. This service usually arrives in Newquay by 21.15 due to the running time allowed between Quintrell Downs and Newquay, then has a long layover time (even at booked times, especially for this time of night, as around three minutes is the norm during the day) before departing at 21.26.

I'm not suggesting that Par is a mass populated area, although it does have a wide catchment zone, basically the point I'm making is that any visitors from stations west of Par who want to travel to Newquay, realistically have to return on the 19.25 from Newquay as otherwise they have (presently) an inconvenient wait at Par.

I agree with Smokey that the wrong line was closed in 1963 and hope that at some stage the proposed cross county service (Falmouth to Newquay) will start. Also the suggestions of amending the stops from the 16.06 to the 15.06 x Padd sounds a viable option, as does running the train through to Penzance.

Interesting points, thank you.   

[Southern Stag]

However an even better idea to me is make the last Newquay train a Penzance Service on return that can run at present timings arrive Par at 22:16 depart at 22:20 calling all stations to Penzance, making a Truro or Redruth connection off the 18:06 Golden Hind for Camborne, Hayle, and St Erth.

And at the moment the Newquay unit runs ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) to Penzance anyway, it would just be a case of turning it in to a service train. But at other times of the year the unit runs ECS to Plymouth. I've often thought that running the last Falmouth train to Penzance would make sense, giving a Camborne, Hayle and St Erth connection out of the 18:03.

The issues raised in this thread aside the Newquay line does have one of the best designed timetables in my opinion, with good connections at Par in both directions throughout the day.

[vacman]

However an even better idea to me is make the last Newquay train a Penzance Service on return that can run at present timings arrive Par at 22:16 depart at 22:20 calling all stations to Penzance, making a Truro or Redruth connection off the 18:06 Golden Hind for Camborne, Hayle, and St Erth.

And at the moment the Newquay unit runs ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) to Penzance anyway, it would just be a case of turning it in to a service train. But at other times of the year the unit runs ECS to Plymouth.

Not possible as it runs DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)), as for saying that the Newquay branch has been neglected-what utter rubbish, 5 years ago it had 4 trains a day with a 6 hour gap in the afternoon at all times apart from high summer and also had no sunday service outside of the summer. Also, there is very little traffic from/to the west on the Newquay branch as if travelling from St Austell/Truro its far quicker and more frequent by bus.

[Cornubian]

Yes the service runs DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)), but it is possible to roster a Guard for the train then it could operate as a passenger service.

I agree that the Newquay line has seen significant improvement over the past few years, however the with the first departure Mon-Fri being at 10.13, the withdrawal of the earlier service was in my opinion and as well as many of my colleagues been ill judged. I have been asked many times by visitors from locations west of Truro and from Newquay regarding days out in those respective areas who were put off from travelling by train because of timings of services. Notably arriving at Par at 11.03, passengers still have almost half an hour to wait for a Penzance service for example.

No one denies that a bus is faster to St.Austell or Truro from Newquay but surely we should be encouraging use of the rail service.

[vacmanfan]

The ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) also has to couple to the ECS from the Falmouth, not possible with passengers on board.  Rather than run this service to PNZ it would be more beneficial to run another service PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains) - PNZ between the Hind and the last unit (HST^▸ (High Speed Train) FO).  I think this would be quite well used especially Fri/Sat nights..

[Cornubian]

Thanks for that however units can be coupled/uncoupled with passengers on.

I agree that a later service would be beneficial especially as there is no service into Cornwall after 22.31, so you can't have a night in Plymouth at the theatre and want to travel by train back into Cornwall.

[Southern Stag]

In general trains can be coupled with passengers on, but only at platforms where it is allowed, platforms which allow for permissive working, two trains to be in the platform at the same time. It can't be done at Truro so the units couldn't couple there.

[vacman]

Thanks for that however units can be coupled/uncoupled with passengers on.

Not at Truro they can't, also the matter of "rostering a guard" isn't as simple as you suggest, basically there would have to be a whole new turn put into the link to work a train that would probably carry about 3 passengers only for them to have to be taxi'd back from Penzance (if using a Par guard).

[bobm]

Out of interest how common is it for crew to use a taxi because their shift ends away from their home base?

[Cornubian]

At Truro, the Falmouth unit could run into Platform 3, then run out over the viaduct and attach to the rear of the unit from Par. This move has been done before to run round defective cab equipment on 153's.

If the unit did run in from Par, as a passenger service, the Penzance crew off the Falmouth after the attachment would work the train forward, the Par crew returning to depot by taxi, as is currently the case.

The use of taxi's for crew's is a fairly common practise at most depots, where it isn't possible to roster crews on regular services.

[trainbuff]

Out of interest how common is it for crew to use a taxi because their shift ends away from their home base?

I dont know about Great Western but Crosscountry has no depot at Penzance. " sets of crew are  taxied down in the morning and 2 in the evening after the last trains

[slippy]

How many people would use this 21:26 Newquay to Penzance??? errrrr?? Hardly any. The best move to make this service more worthwhile would be to make it sit at Newquay to leave LATER thus shortening the current 40+ minute wait until the up sleeper. I hear rumours that Goonbarrow Signalbox may close at Christmas, with no provision of a passing loop at Goonbarrow next year?? Possibily related to NR^» (Network Rail - home page) uping the speeds on the branch this year......