The new franchise - what will happen to LTV services over the next 10 years?

[whole diary]

[eightf48544]

Isn't it interesting how things come round again.

BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) were castigated for building the Bletchley flyover yet it's coming back to life.

I am sure that as part of the same scheme (round London Frieght)  there are dusty plans in the archive for a flyover at Redhill.

However one thing that never seems to be mentionrd is the two track bottle neck through the tunnels  South of Guildford to Shalford Junction or even a flyover at the latter. 



Edit note: Typos corrected, for clarity. CfN.

[IndustryInsider]

No mention in this discussion about the talked about Oxford/Gatwick service using the refurbished underpass at Reading. Mark Hopwood has spoken optimisticly about this possibility. Would that mean using one of the existing 2 slow TPH^▸ (trains per hour) Oxford/London trains to make an hourly O/G service? How about power souces for such a service - 5 car Bi-mode?

With regard to the Oxford-London stoppers, it should be noted that East-West Rail have pushed the case for their half-hourly Bedford/Milton Keynes services to continue beyond Oxford as stopping trains to Reading.  On that front I think they are wrong for several reasons, and that now electrification has been announced an ideal scenario would be to extend one of them to Bristol, to provide a real east to west link, with the other calling at Didcot before (possibly) continuing on to Reading.

Benefits of doing that include:

• Reinstatement of the direct Bristol to Oxford service.
• Better chance of reopening Wooton Basset, Corsham and Wantage stations which could be served by these trains.
• Better range of destinations served by direct trains; Bristol to Oxford; Bath to Bicester; Swindon to Bedford are a few of the examples.
• Removal of two trains per hour laying over at Reading, which when rebuilt with all those through platforms is better suited to through trains.
• Reading to Bedford will become much easier after Crossrail and having a stopping service from Reading to Oxford extending to Bedford would not be very attractive journey time wise.

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

I agree totally with II. Travelling from Reading to Milton Keynes and eastwards would mean going around a semi-circle. Whilst some would use it to/from Reading, I think the greatest potential is from the west, a more or less southwest/northeast diagonal journey to and from the stations mentioned by II but also to the north-east avoiding that horror spot - Birmingham New Street.

[IndustryInsider]

Yes, the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) option is an interesting one as it would cut quite a lot of time out of the through journey time on certain flows, though Birmingham does produce a lot of the loadings on those trains.  The GRIP^▸ (Guide to Railway Investment Projects) 4 East-West Rail study does some calculations on various routes which is well worth a read for those that are interested.  I could certainly see that rising passenger numbers could justify one train per hour heading to/from the North-East via Oxford/Bedford/Leicester, that could also be a service starting from somewhere like Bristol to give the flows I mentioned in my previous post.

The GRIP 4 report (made well before electrification was on the agenda) can be viewed at:  http://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/the_project/reports/

I would urge anyone who agrees with the opinion that services running as stopping trains to/from Reading is not a very good way of maximising the benefits of the direct link, to put them to EastWest rail via their website, as I have already done.  The direct link to do so is at:  http://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/your-views/

[grahame]

I've certainly had to travel to Oxford, Milton Keynes, Bow Brickhill, Cambridge, Ely and Norwich over recent years, many several times, and a direct train would have been rather nice ... which doesn't in itself justify a service. But -  "blue sky" - how about a true connectional service ... linking up with radial routes from London (and others) as follows:
* London to Weymouth at Dorchester
* London to Exeter at Yeovil Joint
* London to Taunton  and beyond at Westbury
* London to Bristol and Weston-super-Mare at Chippenham
* London to South Wales and to Gloucester at Swindon
* Birmingham to Southampton at Oxford
* London (Marylebone) to Stratford-upon-Avon and Birmingham at Bicester Joint
* London (Marylebone) to Aylesbury and beyond at Claydon
* London to Coventry, Liverpool, Manchester etc (West Coast) at Bletchley
* London to Leicester, Derby and Nottingham at Bedford
* London to Peterborough, Doncaster, York and Newcastle etc (East Coast) at Sandy
* London to King's Lynn at Cambridge
* Ipswich to Peterborough etc at Ely
* London to Great Yarmouth at Norwich

[eightf48544]

Small piece in October Modern Railways about changing entrance to Redhill and the possibily of buiding an extra platform for the Gatwicks/ Readings to reverse. No mention of electrification though.

[paul7575]

Small piece in October Modern Railways about changing entrance to Redhill and the possibily of buiding an extra platform for the Gatwicks/ Readings to reverse. No mention of electrification though.

The extra platform at Redhill has been on the cards for a few years, but it is now explicitly stated in the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)'s CP5^▸ (Control Period 5 - the five year period between 2014 and 2019) HLOS^▸ (High Level Output Specification) proposals:

"44. The Secretary of State wishes to augment rail access to Gatwick Airport through capacity enhancement at Redhill..." with the solution listed in the acompanying 'Illustrative Options' being an additional platform;  so it seems a bit more than a possibility...

Paul

[Western Explorer]

Hello! I've just come across this forum. We're wondering how the Marlow branch would be operated post-electrification. One possibility would be a stored energy solution between Bourne End and Marlow along with an all-day half-hourly service to Maidenhead. Some EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) will of course be displaced from Liverpool Street services by Crossrail and it wouldn't be difficult to convert some 315s to 3 cars, but they will be pretty well life expired by that time.

Conversion to a tramway and extension to High Wycombe had been mooted, and that would have atractions for the local community. Also it might be easier to circumvent the places where the trackbed has been built over, in particular at Wooburn. Loudwater is not so easy because of the M40 but light industrial premeses would be easier to relocate. However reinstating the line for heavy rail would provide a diversionary route for the Chiltern line and open up the possibility of a HW to Heathrow service once Heathrow western access is complete. Also commuters on the line value their through services to/from London in the peaks.

The Greenford service from West Ealing could be extended over the GW^▸ (Great Western) line to South Ruislip and West Ruislip, where reversal would be easier, and transferred to the Chiltern franchise. This would require reinstatement of platforms at Greenford and Northolt. This would provide a useful connection between the Chiltern main line and Crossrail without requiring a short hop on the Central line. Should the HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) interchange at Old Oak Common be built then a full service could be restored from the Chiltern line to OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)). Currently there's just the Parliamentary into Paddington once a day and one wonders what will happen to that when Crossrail starts operating.

[JayMac]

Welcome to the forum, Western Explorer. I'm sure some of our knowledgeable bunch will be along shortly to debate the points you raise.

Oh, and nice choice of forum name. I'm a big fan of the 'Western' diesel-hydraulics. 

[anthony215]

As others have stated welcome to the forum Western Explorer.

Now to answer one of your questions about the Marlow branch the main problem being the Marlow platform at Bourne End  although you could perhaps extend the platform towards the main road outside the station although you have to ask what would have if a train overan the platform.

I personally think a tram-train proposal would be good for the branch although that would me the lack of through trains to London which could still end however. using tram-trains I hope would offer much better frequencies and the extensions to other destinations perhaps involving on street operation.

A lot of the class 315's have been mooted for use on the Cardiff Valley lines network along wit the the class 313's which are presently with Southern and as for reducing them to 3 carriage units, perhaops you could but you would have to remove all the equipment which is under the 4th carriages (Which inccidently was a reason given why the class 319's couldnt be reduced to 3 carriage units).

The only other option could be to order some new 2 carriage emu's but this is likely to be expensive as no such emu exists at the moment unless you coulnt the class 456's which are DC^▸ (Direct Current) only.

[inspector_blakey]

Quite apart from being DC^▸ (Direct Current)-only, the 456s are also slated to join the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) fleet as part of the "ten-car railway" plans on the suburban/Windsor services out of Waterloo.

[Southern Stag]

You've also got the 2-car 466s on Southeastern, but they're also DC^▸ (Direct Current) only.

[Western Explorer]

I don't think there are any 2-car 25kV electric units, but as you say it would just about be possible to squeeze a 3-car unit into the down platform at Bourne End. One driver did make an attempt at extending the line a few years ago, and the result made the front of the local papers :-( I think it was after that that they installed the friction buffer stops.

There's no chance of any more third rail electrification outside existing areas, and NR^» (Network Rail - home page) would like to convert the SE to overhead. However if the Southampton-Basingstoke section is converted to AC then some of the redundant equipment could be used for infill on less heavily used lines such as North Downs, Uckfield or Marsh Link. That would require dual voltage stock on the Soton/Weymouth services.

[eightf48544]

There used to be the turbo charged 309 2 cars with the same horsepower as the 4 car sets.

10 car train went like a rocket.

Fastest start stop times over short distances in the world, 66 mph average over around 15 miles.

Plus they used to be 4 car sets with a Griddle car with real  steak (cooked to order) in a bap!