Ticket Vending Machines vs. Disability

[whole diary]

[thetrout]

I'm not one to very regularly use my disability as an excuse for my mistakes. But that was undoubtably the case this morning for my blunder at the TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine).

I required a ticket to Trowbridge from Bath Spa. A journey I make regularly but in the reverse order. What's different. As discussed at length in other threads; Trowbridge has no TVM so a human actually sells the ticket! (If you can find one to do so at all )

Anyhow when I pressed the button I was presented with about 8 or 9 different tickets and as I had just queued for nearly 20!minutes and time was marching on I was a little hasty. Confused by the differing tickets and distracted by the announcement of my train shortly to arrive. Mild Anxiety set on and I pressed the first Day Return option I could find. Sod's law states I would have to press the Anytime Day Return didn't I? /grrr

Anyway I was going to go into the ticket office and ask but the Twitter Feed has possibly saved the day... Couldn't possibly comment on who's in charge tonight...

Anyway. Are TVM's a suitable option for people who perhaps need a little (and I use the term very loosely!) "assistance"??

Discuss:

[trainer]

I have no particular special needs, but always feel under pressure if even one person is waiting to use a TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) as I am buying a ticket. I know my way round the system pretty well, although I don't travel as often as some so each encounter is a new learning experience.  I regard myself as a fairly confident soul, but the eyes boring into the back of my head and willing me to get on with it do not aid clear thinking.  If there is a problem, I instinctively want to ask for help, but of course then I discover that the others waiting are not actually pressuring me at all, but watching to see how it's done, because they've never used a TVM and had hoped that the Yatton ticket office would be open.  No wonder so many don't bother and prefer to pay on the train.  You have my understanding.

[JayMac]

Wherever and whenever possible I use a staffed ticket counter. Both for 'on the day' travel and for Advance Purchase. I do occasionally buy Advance Purchase tickets online, but these are for longer journeys where I can't make significant savings on walk up tickets by 'gaming' the fares system.

I don't used staffed ticket counters because of any particular disability (although I do have a couple) but because I'm a firm believer in 'use or lose it'.

Given the choice between a TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) and a human, I'll plump for the human most times. If the TVM is limited in acceptance of payment method, I'll conveniently not have the right payment method (no one knows, or can find out, what I do or don't have in my pockets!) and pay elsewhere on the journey, usually on board.

My regular start station is neither manned or TVM'd. The on train staff are well versed in providing me with my esoteric ticketing needs! It helps that my anal knowledge of the system means I can clearly state my ticketing needs and sometimes tell the conductor how to find a particular ticket on their machine.

[BerkshireBugsy]

Like trainer I don't have a disability but I curse these machines. Even when the one at my local station(thatcham) is working the touch screen is so temperamental it is very difficult and sometimes impossible to use.

Now I realise that this may seem dramatic but when you consider that my destination station (Reigate) isn't on the list which means having to navigate the virtual keyboard for that and my railcard number. Having done ths it then comes up "card unrecognised" and at ths point I give up having tried my best.

Thankfully for most of the time I only need to do ths once a week and I have a collection of consecutive railway tickets to show my payment record.

[ellendune]

I used a TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) at Bristol TM^‡(resolve) last Saturday, becasue the queue for the humas was going out of the door.  I managed to get the options for Bristol to Swindon and then was faced with an array of ticket types and absolutely no guidance as to which was valid.  How is that any use to the average prospective passenger. 

A couple of years ago I tried one at Koln Hbf. I was trying to buy a ticket to Bonn.  I was easily switched to work in English, then when I said where I wanted to go gave me a list of trains togther with the fares, just as the internet booking engines do.  It then asked me to select a train and sold me a ticket. Simples.

So if DBahn can do it why can't anyone in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)?

[Chris from Nailsea]

... particularly when one considers that the Scheidt & Bachmann ticket vending machines used by First Great Western in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) are actually made in Germany ... 

[grahame]

Interesting thread ... a couple of personal comments

a) I feel pressure when there are people waiting behind me to purchase as quickly as possible, and that feeling of pressure is shared (and thus halved) when buying from a real person

b) At times, I have found the wide range of ticket choices confusing, and that the best priced ticket for me, even on a simple journey, required me to move ask for a second page of prices.   I know that on Google, only a tiny proportion of people look at the second page of results, and wonder if that's also the case with TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine)

c) These days, I have poor eyesight and require the use of a clinical aid (glasses) to make use of a TVM.  Should I not be entitled to a disabled rail card, just as someone who requires an aid such as a wheelchair is, or at least be allowed to buy my ticket using voice rather than site? (Intentionally provocative suggestion, this one!)

d) TVMs can only provide the tickets I need on a small proporton of occasions; either there's no TVM available, or I'm buying in advance in anticipation of a journey that starts from another station, or I'm splitting.

e) There's no button on a TVM labelled "is this valid on the 19:00 train back this evening", nor "is there another option for travel on these trains which will cost me less?"

f) If I know what I need, and / or it's easy to select what I need and have any ancilliary questions answered, and I don't feel I'm delaying others, I'm perfectly happy to use an automated system.

In our own business ...

i) we have an automated booking system for hotel rooms which a high proportion of people, especially returning guests, use.  We strive for efficiency, clarity and simplicity, and look to cover virtually every base, and we have a phone line to a real person that can always be used to book, query, or even change an automeated booking.  And we do NOT require that customers turn up with a piece of cardboard to proove that they have booked / paid.

ii) we have an automated system for training courses which we scarsely ever use.  A few customers prefer to use such a system, but the majority want to discuss their needs and ensure that they are buying the product that's right for them, and the options we offer are so wide that such a discussion ofetn results in them buying a better product for them than they might have selected, often at a lower price.

Railwaywise, TVMs can have their place - ideal for common tickets within a straightforward system where the users are confident of what they need. But IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) they need backing up by dynamic / human staffed point of sales alternatives.  The easier you make the ticketing regime, the more TVMs - be they via your home printer or at the station, (or swipe in / swipe out systems) can provide an excellent service for the regular, confident customer.  And the human approach can be used for the more specialised requirements, and for the marketing of product by building customer knowledge and confidence.   In West Wilts, journey numbers have increase by 80% in 10 years; encouraging new customers by having a human interface to the railways can help it grow a further 80% in the next 10 years.

[eightf48544]

A couple of years ago I tried one at Koln Hbf. I was trying to buy a ticket to Bonn.  I was easily switched to work in English, then when I said where I wanted to go gave me a list of trains togther with the fares, just as the internet booking engines do.  It then asked me to select a train and sold me a ticket. Simples.

So if DBahn can do it why can't anyone in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)?

... particularly when one considers that the Scheidt & Bachmann ticket vending machines used by First Great Western in the UK are actually made in Germany ... 

The problem is that Germany has a relatively simple fare structure IC^▸ (Inter City)/ICE/EC are one price and  another usually cheaper one for RE^▸ (Religious Education) RB's & S bahn  . Most large towns have combined tickets for all public transport ( excluding ICs  similar to the a London Travel card.

For longer regional journeys there is the Lander card which allows unlimted travel on REs etc after 09:00 weekdays and all day weekend   for 1 to 5 people although you have to state how many are travelling (and pay 2E each extra) and stick together. Some cover more than one Lander and thus huge areas. Such as Neidersachensen, Thuringur Sachsen.

There is also the Schines Wockends which ois similar to the Lander but covers the whole of Germany and parts of Czech Republic and Poland

[swrural]

Yes, in italy we used machines at Rome Termini (but not on arrival at Fiumicino airport late at night which were OOO     
   ).

We got a bit worried at Termini because there were two types of TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine), one for intercity and one for local / regional railway trips.  We tried the regional one (long queue of 'lost souls' at the other) and it sold tickets for the inter city but the tickets looked different to the ones we had noticed coming out of the other so we were a bit worried when we got on the next day but all was fine.  Incidentally first class was only a trifle dearer (30% was it?) so it's always worth choosing in Italy IMO^▸ (in my opinion).

I've used the TVM at Axminster but once.  We had booked our tickets on the net and just had numbers to punch in.  So we were just picking up what we had already bought.

The trouble was, we had the same 'lost souls' to queue behind as we had found at Rome (they are everywhere thus) and as the minutes ticked by, I began to see that our day would be ruined (we had but one connection at Exeter St D to get the Sunday train to Okehampton (nice trip, try it sometime). 

Eventually after the next groan ('oh what have I done now') I pleaded to queue-jump, and we made it with a minute to go. It was my first attempt at this and I was rather proud that I managed without panicking.  I presume our kind queue colleagues probably abandoned and just got on another train (they cross at Axminster nowadays).

All this sort of thing just reinforces the Steve Norris view of public transport.

[Tim]

First simplify the ticketing system then regardless of retail route, disability or whatever buying a ticket will be easier.

[grahame]

Have a look at http://www.flickr.com/photos/janepbr/3340254241/in/photostream/ for an ideal ticket machine. Walk up, and it clearly lists destinations covered. Put your money in, and it gives you the ticket.  Perhaps we have taken 10 steps forward and 25 back?

[swrural]

Yes, I forgot to mention my extensive experience with Dutch TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) (as I now understand I must call them).

Simplicity itself, like lots of stuff there.  You do have to pay extra now if you want to buy from a ticket office.

The only snag over there is the newer 'Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services)' type system -  OV kaart (PT card) which, if you go by rail, you have to load with ^20 at least otherwise you can't use it.  You can for the buses.  So NS has a nice little cash flow bonus.  I can't remember whether you only check in and out once on a combined bus and rail trip.

The apeing of our privatisation in the EU^» (European Union - about) countries is causing a lot of resentment and the high handed attitude by cancelling the AMS -BRU inter-cities and making everyone go by Fyra (at extra cost) is the latest example
 - whoops, sorry, different thread.

But international comparisons can be a useful tool to whack over the head of our own system providers.

[bobm]

Have a look at http://www.flickr.com/photos/janepbr/3340254241/in/photostream/ for an ideal ticket machine. Walk up, and it clearly lists destinations covered. Put your money in, and it gives you the ticket.  Perhaps we have taken 10 steps forward and 25 back?

Goodness me that brings back memories.

I can remember as a schoolboy in Reading occasionally getting the train from Reading to Reading West for either 4d or 4p (child single).  I felt very important queuing up with all these businessmen buying their tickets to Paddington (did no-one buy season tickets in those days?)

The ticket clerk used to have a huge machine behind him which he seemed to slide a cursor along to produce the ticket - it looked a bit like a giant slide rule.  No idea how it worked but I got my ticket and off I went for my four minute journey!

[BerkshireBugsy]

Goodness me that brings back memories.

The ticket clerk used to have a huge machine behind him which he seemed to slide a cursor along to produce the ticket - it looked a bit like a giant slide rule.  No idea how it worked but I got my ticket and off I went for my four minute journey!

4 minutes?! Eyelad you were lucky..I used to have to get up 15 minutes before I went to bed...live in shoebox in t'middle of the road...You try telling that to the kids of the day

Loved the picture BTW^▸ (by the way)..that did bring back memories! I seem to remember there was a machine on one of the stations that allowed you to emboss words on a metal tape (a bit like dymo labelling used to be). Nothing to do with train tickets but good fun!

[Southern Stag]

d) TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) can only provide the tickets I need on a small proporton of occasions; either there's no TVM available, or I'm buying in advance in anticipation of a journey that starts from another station, or I'm splitting.

Selling tickets with another origin station is something TVMs in this country can do. Southern have it enabled on their TVMs, there's a button on the screen which says something like tickets from other origins. I believe somebody asked SWT^▸ (South West Trains) if they had plans to implement the feature on one of their websites, and they said they are aware of it but have no plans to implement it on their network.