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Author Topic: Major delays/cancellations, Paddington to Reading, 20 December 2012 and ongoing ...  (Read 66609 times)
BBM
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« Reply #135 on: December 28, 2012, 10:23:20 »

To counter the bad news on here I'm pleased to report that I had a very easy journey today. I got the 0724 Turbo stopper from Twyford and changed at Maidenhead onto the following 0738 departure, an HST (High Speed Train) from Great Malvern, which whisked me quickly and comfortably to Paddington for an on-time arrival at 0808, some 15 minutes earlier than if I'd stayed on the Turbo. Hopefully I'm not tempting fate by reporting this and my journey home will be equally good tonight!  Smiley
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« Reply #136 on: December 28, 2012, 11:27:49 »

I think the FGW (First Great Western) team have worked extremely hard over the past few weeks with disruption happening permantly... Not to say that this acceptable but just from my sources, I would like you all to know that, there are only 3 people in the control room that provide all the info to both internal and external sources (websites, news, stations etc...). They also have to order and cooridnate replacement bus services, taxis and an array of other jobs. Yes they will be supported by managament, but when there are so many incidents it is very very hard to actually keep on top of so many service alterations.

And that's the problem.  There aren't enough people in Control to control things when they go wrong, so with a weak link at the very top of the information structure what chance does the rest of the chain stand?

Here's an example:  I was on a train the other day to Hereford from London chatting to the crew and we got delayed at Hanborough by about 20 minutes because someone got stuck in the disabled toilet.  We had a fair few people on board wanting to make a 15-minute connection to Gloucester and Cheltenham at Worcester (their original train via Swindon had been cancelled I think).  The train crew managed to get on to Control after a fair while and an agreement was made to hold the connection.  The TM(resolve) then made an announcement to everyone on board saying that the train would be held.  A great example of good customer service.

BUT... We came over Norton Junction and what was waiting at the signal to come the other way?  Their connecting train.  Which had left Shrub Hill on time.  A phone call from the TM to Shrub Hill station revealed that nobody had told Shrub Hill staff to hold the train so they let it go on time.  Cue a very embarrassing announcement from the TM and a whole heap of angry passengers.
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Andy W
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« Reply #137 on: December 28, 2012, 12:01:35 »

And that's the problem.  There aren't enough people in Control to control things when they go wrong, so with a weak link at the very top of the information structure what chance does the rest of the chain stand?

Here's an example:  I was on a train the other day to Hereford from London chatting to the crew and we got delayed at Hanborough by about 20 minutes because someone got stuck in the disabled toilet.  We had a fair few people on board wanting to make a 15-minute connection to Gloucester and Cheltenham at Worcester (their original train via Swindon had been cancelled I think).  The train crew managed to get on to Control after a fair while and an agreement was made to hold the connection.  The TM(resolve) then made an announcement to everyone on board saying that the train would be held.  A great example of good customer service.


Out of interest is it really prudent to block the single line because someone is stuck in the toilet?

I assume that if the person was disabled then they would be met by somebody. Why not allow their partner to travel with them (at no cost) until the person was released then both return on the next train (assuming not the last train of the day)?

Sometimes "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one" as long as First catered fully for the person.
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CLPGMS
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« Reply #138 on: December 28, 2012, 12:09:36 »

Re II's report on the missed connection at Worcester Shrub Hill, platform space may also have been a problem had the message got through.  Often trains to Gloucester use the same platform (1) as incoming trains from London.  If platform 2 happened not to be free at the time, it may have been necessary to let the connection go anyway.  If, however, the Gloucester train had started its journey at Great Malvern, it could have been held at Henwick.

The non receipt of information is nothing new.  Way back in about the 1980s, I was returning from a day out in Bournemouth, only to find that my train to Basingstoke was cancelled.  As this meant that I would miss my last train of the day from Reading back to the Cotswold Line, I saw the station supervisor, who, very helpfully, suggested that I should catch the sleeper train, which was still running at the time.  This was booked to arrive at Oxford just 3 minutes after the Cotswold Line train was due to depart.  He rang Oxford station and asked then to arrange for the CL train to move to the end of platform 2 so that the train from Bournemouth could run in behind it.  As we approached Oxford, I noticed that we had the calling on signal instead of the usual one, so I assumed that the arrangement had worked.  Wrong.  The connection had just left and it took me about 90 minutes to convince the supervisor there that my story was true.  Apparently staff at both Bournemouth and Oxford had changed over at 2200 and the message had not been passed on.  They did eventually provide me with a taxi home.
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« Reply #139 on: December 28, 2012, 13:15:46 »

Out of interest is it really prudent to block the single line because someone is stuck in the toilet?

In this case they'd pulled the emergency chord in the toilet, so until the staff could gain access they couldn't reset it and the brakes were stuck on.

Re II's report on the missed connection at Worcester Shrub Hill, platform space may also have been a problem had the message got through.  Often trains to Gloucester use the same platform (1) as incoming trains from London.  If platform 2 happened not to be free at the time, it may have been necessary to let the connection go anyway.  If, however, the Gloucester train had started its journey at Great Malvern, it could have been held at Henwick.

Whilst it might be a problem some of the time, the Gloucester train was booked off of the up platform at 12:54 having arrived from Worcester Foregate Street at 12:42 (so it had a 12-minute layover), and could have waited at the end of that platform, as the only other train (besides the train I was on) was a LM (London Midland - recent franchise) arrival which was then heading back towards Birmingham, so that could have been accommodated at the other end of the platform.
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« Reply #140 on: December 28, 2012, 21:40:40 »

Cue a very embarrassing announcement from the TM(resolve) and a whole heap of angry passengers.

I've had the same thing happened where Control could not contact Station staff to tell them.  I always think though, that Control could then contact the appropriate Signal Panel and tell them not to give that train "the road" as it needs to be held for a late inward - too obvious?  Probably  Lips sealed
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« Reply #141 on: December 29, 2012, 00:03:00 »

Signalmen are Networkrail and Station Staff TOC (Train Operating Company)'s.
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CLPGMS
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« Reply #142 on: December 29, 2012, 00:37:27 »

Yes, but in FGW (First Great Western)'s case, their Controllers are in the same room as Network Rail's in Swindon.  They can easily communicate with one another.
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« Reply #143 on: December 29, 2012, 08:51:44 »

Signalmen are Networkrail and Station Staff TOC (Train Operating Company)'s.
Yes, but in FGW (First Great Western)'s case, their Controllers are in the same room as Network Rail's in Swindon.  They can easily communicate with one another.

Yet both are reluctant to make to commercial decision, if the TOC says hold train xyz there are delay cost to other services (TOC on self or other TOC or FOC (Freight Operating Company)) they would have to bare (TOC on self NR» (Network Rail - home page) gets some of its other delay mins on that route written off), if NR takes the decision then NR gets the hit on delay costs.

The decision to hold a train for a connection rests with the TOC if its a connection with another TOC then the 2 TOC's have to come to an agreement and which one picks up the tab.

Delay attribution is not as bad as it used to be but it still exists and is for real money
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« Reply #144 on: December 29, 2012, 11:59:16 »


I think the FGW (First Great Western) team have worked extremely hard over the past few weeks with disruption happening permantly... Not to say that this acceptable but just from my sources, I would like you all to know that, there are only 3 people in the control room that provide all the info to both internal and external sources (websites, news, stations etc...). They also have to order and cooridnate replacement bus services, taxis and an array of other jobs. Yes they will be supported by managament, but when there are so many incidents it is very very hard to actually keep on top of so many service alterations.


The manning levels in FGW's Control are a FGW commercial decision.  They may have decided (and I'm not knocking this in principle) that 3 people are sufficient for most of the time, and it's not worth rostering Control resources that may be under-utilised if the railway is running fine.  So FGW will accept that when things go really bad they won't be able to manage the situation as well as if more Control resources were available.   And maybe because of FGW's staff cuts (and, again, I'm not knocking this in principle) there are only a limited number of properly trained and experienced Controllers on the payroll anyway, so they couldn't even bring them in when required if they wanted to.

Maybe, with the GWML (Great Western Main Line) being extensively remodelled, electrified, modernised etc, FGW (or its successor) will need to accept disruptions and overrunning engineering works will become more common, and that Control needs to be better (ie quantity and quality) resourced for the next few years.
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« Reply #145 on: December 29, 2012, 12:32:34 »

I would suggest that there are ways to provide more staff during periods of disruption, with little overall increases in cost.  There are no shortage of other FGW (First Great Western) staff working at (or near) Swindon, you could have a pool of them trained to become assistants at times when there is service disruption - i.e. they get pulled from their normal duties to help out answering telephone calls, or updating the website for example (getting through to someone is one of the major bug bears of staff). 

Be they a combination of office workers (not ideal when the disruption is outside of office hours), or station staff (barrier staff - if it's bad enough just leave the gates open at Swindon or Didcot for a few hours and get those staff up in Control answering telephones), or even agency staff (could some kind of dual roles be created where security/cleaning/car park staff are trained up to help?).  I'm not talking about real decision making roles - that should stay with the 'three in charge' currently, but just some admin support which is desperately needed.

Also, perhaps an agreement with NR» (Network Rail - home page) that decisions can be devolved more locally during times of disruption without everything having to go through Control.  For example, the AOM's at the out stations could allocate drivers like the previous Train Crew Supervisors at those locations used to do (editing Genius themselves so that everyone knows what everyone is doing), or the Duty Manager being able to issue a stop order for small locations such as Appleford?
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« Reply #146 on: December 29, 2012, 17:15:55 »

I wholeheartedly agree with your suggestions, but I wonder whether they fit in with the First culture.  My perception is that First is very much a "command and control" type of organisation, a long way from a Quaility Through People culture we had in the last days of BR (British Rail(ways)).  This is not necessarily a bad thing, but a consequence is that staff may feel less valued and less empowered.

And my understanding is that, far from devolving decision-making, First is drawing this back to Swindon, and even to Scotland for some issues that may in the past have been dealt with locally (eg SPAD (Signal Passed At Danger) incidents).

So I wonder how many staff would feel they want to "help out" by getting into Swindon Control at 5 am at short notice on a Monday morning to deal with an engineering overrun.  If they were told to they would because they may be worried by the consequences if they didn't, but would they willingly volunteer because they thought their contribution would be appreciated by their employer?

Sorry if this is a bit heavy for the holiday season, but I did spend some years working in a QTP culture and understand how effective it can be in motivating and empowering people.   
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« Reply #147 on: December 29, 2012, 23:48:26 »

So I wonder how many staff would feel they want to "help out" by getting into Swindon Control at 5 am at short notice on a Monday morning to deal with an engineering overrun.  If they were told to they would because they may be worried by the consequences if they didn't, but would they willingly volunteer because they thought their contribution would be appreciated by their employer?

I would imagine some form of sweetener in the form of a bonus payment or possibly a couple of extra days leave would be enough to get the interest levels up.  Also, bearing in mind that some of the staff I mentioned are involved in quite menial tasks on a day-to-day basis, so some might enjoy the change?
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« Reply #148 on: December 30, 2012, 18:38:12 »

Long time ago, I once had to make a tight (but valid) connection at Exeter St David's for an Axminster Train... FGW (First Great Western) service to Exeter was 28 down leaving me 1 minute to get the connection at EXD» (Exeter St Davids - next trains). The TM(resolve) onboard simply said. I'm not going to bother phoning to get the SWT (South West Trains) service held as they'll never wait for us. (He wasn't wrong Angry ) Would they give me a Taxi from EXD to Axminster... When there was no train for just over 2 hours? Would they hell!!

I didn't overly encourage them actually after the initial "No." As I then knew excess of 2 hour delay was a refund on the ticket. Considering the ticket I had at the time was a considerable amount and I knew I had to make a journey in the peak fairly soon, I didn't force the issue. Real kick in the teeth was that Peak train to London was nearly 3 hours late on April Fools Day as NR» (Network Rail - home page) knocked over a signal gantry! (Karma at it's worst Angry )
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Grin Grin Grin Grin
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« Reply #149 on: January 02, 2013, 20:08:45 »

Would they give me a Taxi from EXD» (Exeter St Davids - next trains) to Axminster... When there was no train for just over 2 hours? Would they hell!!

I don't know what the SWT (South West Trains) limit is (XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) is 2 hours unsurprisingly), but if there is no FGW (First Great Western) option for over an hour and there was a missed connection, then alternative transport must be provided  Huh Huh
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