Not allowed First class in Crosscountry

[whole diary]

[TaplowGreen]

....just a quick one as I'm not sure if I was given a bum steer or not....was booked in First class on the 0948 from Plymouth to Reading this morning - got to Plymouth station to find it was cancelled... .....don't worry says matey on gateline, jump on the 0925 Crosscountry service and change at Exeter or Bristol, its been agreed that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) passengers can use that service (as it would have been another hour for the next FGW to Reading)

So on I get and sit in 1st class (with my Advance ticket marked "FGW ONLY" which Gateline chap saw).

About 10 mins later we're underway and Crosscountry chap appears to check my ticket - "sorry, can't sit in First class with that one, you'll have to buy a new ticket or sit in 2nd class" - apparently as CC were doing FGW a "favour" this is the rule........is this the case or was I sold a pup?

In actual fact I ended up getting off at Exeter St Davids and changing as the "cancelled" FGW 0948 was eventually started from Exeter - I'm sort of grateful for CC transporting me that far but was the guy right about the 1st class ticket?

[JayMac]

If CrossCountry have agreed to accept FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s passengers then they should accept the class of travel those passengers are travelling in. That's my personal opinion. I don't know of any official published policy beyond the "CrossCountry will accept FGW passengers between x and y." type announcements.

I'd be writing to both FGW and CrossCountry asking whether what you were told is official policy. I'd also be asking FGW for passenger charter compensation as 1st Class accommodation wasn't available for part of your journey. You held a reservation for a 1st Class seat and one was not provided for part of the journey.

I also suspect that if the boot was on the other foot FGW wouldn't have been so petty. Perhaps the CrossCountry TM^‡(resolve) was just after some extra commission.

[inspector_blakey]

That's a very interesting question: like BNM I had always assumed that tickets would be honoured in the class of travel for which they were valid, although I've had a quick look through the fares manual and there's no guidance on the issue that I can see. As a passenger I'd certainly have done exactly the same as you and installed myself in first class.

It does seem unduly churlish of XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) not to honour the ticket in first class; given that they were prepared to accept standard class pax with "FGW^▸ (First Great Western) only" tickets in standard, it seems odd that you were booted out of first.

I'd echo the previous comment: write to both FGW and XC explaining the situation and asking for their take on it. Keep it brief and factual and see what you get back. And if you do, please let us know what the result is, because I'd be intrigued to know.

[LiskeardRich]

Was XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) first class fully booked? This is the only reason I can think of not allowing FGW^▸ (First Great Western) passengers in, unless there were large numbers of FGW first class holders and XC decided it was in best interest not to allow any of FGW passengers in, if they were aware XC + FGW first class holders were more than XC first class capacity.

[JayMac]

The fact that the TM^‡(resolve) was willing to sting the OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter) for a 1st Class fare rather suggests that it wasn't fully booked with XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) passengers.

[Southern Stag]

FC^‡(resolve) is unlikely to have been so busy between Plymouth and Exeter that it couldn't also carry the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) passengers. And of course any passengers with walk-up FC tickets who intended to catch the 0948 would have been free to travel in FC on the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) service.

[thetrout]

I'm tempted to say bum steer. CrossCountry have been known to have rather draconian measures when carrying passengers on behalf of other TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s.

I don't know what was said, but I might have argued my case or perhaps asked the TM^‡(resolve) to write me up (Unpaid Fares Notice). If ticket acceptance is in place, then irrespective of which TOC was at fault, if the ticket says First Class, then that should be honored. (Should being the operative word). Any layman would also state that if they have First Class written on their ticket, surely that should mean First Class.

However I strongly suspect if you had a FOS between PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains) and EXD^» (Exeter St Davids - next trains) that the issue would never have come to fruition whether you had a seat reservation for an FGW^▸ (First Great Western) or not (Which Southern Stag rightly pointed out)

Do please write to both FGW and XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) Taplow Green and let us know how you get on as I too would be interested to know. I've experienced XC during ticket acceptance situations and they can be very draconian on the matter. So it's disappointing to see that something as simple as this can become an issue.

I've also had the flip side of that, when I've paid ^20 odd (some cases more) for a First Class ticket and XC have been only too happy to declassify First Class mid journey and it's a case of like it or lump it

The fact that the TM was willing to sting the OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter) for a 1st Class fare rather suggests that it wasn't fully booked with XC passengers.

Can I play Devils Advocate and suggest that perhaps it would have been a nice commission?

[broadgage]

I have been refused admission to cross country first class even with a full fare first open ticket ! that is meant to be valid on any train.

IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) it was during engineering work, and a bus service was innvolved. The intended journey was a FGW^▸ (First Great Western) train, a bus and then another FGW train.
Owing to insuficient space on the bus, I missed the connecting FGW train and had to use a cross country service. They would not let me use first class despite having a first open ticket.
Other passengers with tickets valid only on the booked train were "fined" substantial sums for not being on the correct train.

Cross country are IMO^▸ (in my opinion) the second worst TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) of any that I use regulary, FCC^▸ (First Capital Connect) being the worst.

(I may have mentioned this previously in a disscusion about the hazards of replacement bus services)

[thetrout]

I have been refused admission to cross country first class even with a full fare first open ticket ! that is meant to be valid on any train.

I knew someone on this forum had that problem, just wasn't sure who it was so couldn't reference it...

I didn't post this on the forum for reasons that may be obvious.

But I personally have been ejected from an XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) service after being told I needed to buy a new ticket despite my perfectly valid ticket being just that, VALID! (Disruption caused me to use XC otherwise would've willingly used FGW^▸ (First Great Western)). Even other passengers were stunned by what was going on. No reasoning with the TM^‡(resolve) I was demanded to pay for an FDS to the next station (Despite my ticket covering me for that as well). I showed my disabled railcard and the TM point blank refused to honor the discount because (GET THIS) "I should've bought a valid ticket before boarding the train" It was at that point when a lady sat opposite me blew a fuse for my defense and said the TM was out of order. I had no intention of paying up when I was told my RC wouldn't be honored. Why I even contemplated paying before that anyway I know not.

Anyway the TM went off in a huff to call the RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context))/BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) Squad on my backside and in the process of their temper stomp walk, trod on a Guide Dogs paw... I'll end there... But needless to say that carriage became an instant vocal war zone... (Understatement!) XC got a few nasty letters from that little incident and I personally haven't seen said staff member since.

[trainer]

Is there an Independent Democratic Republic of XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) that means, like North Korea, it recognises nothing outside itself? 


Edited to correct appalling grammar

[TaplowGreen]

.........just to keep you updated, I had a reply from FGW^▸ (First Great Western) within 48 hours apologising and offering rail vouchers, still no word from XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise))!

[Bristolboy]

.........just to keep you updated, I had a reply from FGW^▸ (First Great Western) within 48 hours apologising and offering rail vouchers, still no word from XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise))!

Well done FGW!

[BerkshireBugsy]

.........just to keep you updated, I had a reply from FGW^▸ (First Great Western) within 48 hours apologising and offering rail vouchers, still no word from XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise))!

Well done FGW!

From my experience XC are very slow at responding to communications with customer services. I recently got delayed by 45 minutes on one of their services and the TM^‡(resolve) (who had been very informative during the delay period) announced the delay /repay scheme . I duly emailed all the information off to XC in the manner defined on their web site and 2 weeks later got a reply which couldn't have been more impersonal if they had tried. I am still waiting for a "proper" reply 3 weeks after the delayed journey.

So don't hold your breath.

[TaplowGreen]

.....finally got a reply from XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) yesterday, pretty garbled about "we weren't aware that we were accepting FGW^▸ (First Great Western) passengers on that service" -  despite me pointing out that it was because the 0948 FGW to Paddington was cancelled - and they are "continuing to investigate".......great!

I have already sent my tickets back to FGW and am awaiting the refund they promised me so will leave XC to swing in the breeze I reckon

[readytostart]

I've been asked on occasion at Newcastle if I'd take passengers from a cancelled EC service. If it was just one cancelled train then it may not have warranted full ticket acceptance and would be purely at the discretion of the Train Manager if they were willing to accept GW^▸ (Great Western) passengers.