Who to write to (in First Great Western) regarding IEP?

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

As far as I can tell, your assertion is incorrect. I am going from the September 2012 Modern Railways Informed Sources, where (under the heading: 'IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) - signed and sealed') the planned IEP fleet makeup was published, as follows:

• 5-car bi-mode - 32 diagrams, 36 sets
• 9-car 'electric' - 18 diagrams, 21 sets
• Total 50 -  50 diagrams, 57 sets

I threw together some timetables in Excel and came up with the following rough estimates for numbers of diagrams:

With respect your figures are nothing more than guesstimates.  As 'Electric Train' says, I personally doubt that the Oxford-Paddington services will be operated by IEP's, and are much more likely to be 4-car (or 8 in the peaks) EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) in whatever form we get them - especially if cleared for 110mph.  Also, I doubt Westbury to Paddington on an hourly basis will come to fruition in the final timetable - I can see occasional services from Westbury filling in the gaps for the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) services on longer distance routes as per now, and if (as may well happen) the wires extend to Westbury then a 4-car 110mph EMU operated service would again take my money if I was a betting man.

I can't see there being three trains an hour from Bristol to London throughout the whole day either - yes, until late morning and from mid-afternoon onwards, but all day?   I doubt it.  Also, diagrams don't work how you describe - sets end up going all over the place throughout the day in order to gain maximum efficiency from them, so perhaps less units will be required than your calculations suggest?  Also, do those calculations take into account the planned reduction in journey times?

This probably means ALL IEP services that extend beyond the wires being 5-car throughout, with some under-wires diagrams also being 5-car bi-modes working alone.

All of which means the above quote, is, in my opinion, a little rash.  There will be some services where a 5-car Bi-mode will be adequate, even with a further increase in passenger numbers (off peak Cheltenham's and Worcester's, and late evening services from Cardiff and Bristol to London for example), but I'll stick with my previous comment, that I think the majority of Bi-Mode trains will be 10-car - at least for the busier part of the journey.

[ChrisB]

The current 2tph two BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) trains plus one via BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains). I've heard discussions at FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) people talking that.

I think Oxford fasts will be cascaded EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) too, probably from 'Thameslink' stock (319s?), apart from those that go on to Cotwolds or Banbury, which will be 5car bi-modes (2x5 possibly to OXF^» (Oxford - next trains), splitting there)

[paul7575]

The current 2tph two BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) trains plus one via BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains). I've heard discussions at FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) people talking that.

Is the 4 tph from Bristol (2 each way), first mentioned in the GW^▸ (Great Western) franchise consultation, definitely a non-starter now then?

The size and make-up of the new IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) fleet will be capable of delivering the following indicative modelled service pattern. Within the contractual commitments of the IEP programme the franchisee will have flexibility as to how the fleet is operated on a day-to-day basis:
4 trains per hour (tph) London^Bristol Temple Meads; 2 tph running via Bath and 2 tph running via Bristol Parkway.
Some of the Parkway trains would extend to Weston-super-Mare and, in the peaks, to Taunton;
2 tph London^Cardiff, with 1 tph serving Swansea, and 1 train per day extending to Carmarthen;
1 tph London^Worcester, with some extensions to Great Malvern and Hereford;
1 tph London^Cheltenham;
1 tph (most hours) semi-fast to Westbury, with some extensions to Exeter and one mid-day round trip to Paignton.

Paul

[ChrisB]

oooh, I don't know....is the size of the currently-proposed fleet the same as was suggested in that piece you quote from?

[paul7575]

Haven't a clue really - there's so many variants flying around.

I dare say the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) are waiting for Rhydgaled to make his final decision...

Paul

[swrural]

No need to be sarcy Paul!    

As an example, if I am getting the 1430 from BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) to PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) in 2018, will it be a 5 car electric from Platform 1 or will it be a 10 car electric?  In other words, how much off peak variance is envisaged in capacity.  I mean, at present, the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) are all a standard 8 cars are they not (or is it 7, I am not an enthusiast     )?

[ChrisB]

BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) will have the 9car electrics. It was Oxford likely to have EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit)...

[swrural]

Ah, so the electrics will always be 9 car (sorry about the 10 car mistake), even if hardly anybody is on board, ever, at that time of day?

[trainer]

Ah, so the electrics will always be 9 car (sorry about the 10 car mistake), even if hardly anybody is on board, ever, at that time of day?

No difference from today's HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) - except one more carriage.  That's the thing with fixed formation trains.

[IndustryInsider]

BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) will have the 9car electrics. It was Oxford likely to have EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit)...

Ah, so the electrics will always be 9 car (sorry about the 10 car mistake), even if hardly anybody is on board, ever, at that time of day?

In that case they are very likely to be electric only, though any of the through services from Weston (and perhaps Taunton) will have to be bi-mode, though given they are likely to be peak trains then I would have thought they will be 10-car bi-mode trains (at least for the busy bit between Bristol and London).

[Network SouthEast]

Bi-mode IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) will be serving the Cotswold line, so 1tph between Paddington and Oxford will be IEP and the other 1tph fast and the  2tph slow trains will be 110mph EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit).

[Southern Stag]

BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) will have the 9car electrics. It was Oxford likely to have EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit)...

I thought the 2tph via Bath were going to be 9-car electrics and the 2tph via Parkway 5-car bi-modes. There aren't enough electric sets to have all the electric services actually formed of electric IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.). 4 9-car trains an hour from Bristol-London each hour would obviously be a huge overkill at off-peak times anyway. There hasn't been any post-IEP timetable produced that I've seen yet but people do seem to be questioning whether some of the quoted frequencies and calling patterns are feasible. Squeezing an extra 2tph in from Swindon-London seems ambitious in the first place but IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) the Swansea and one Bristol TM^‡(resolve) via Parkway service are also planned to be fast services, which uses up even more capacity.

[ChrisB]

BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) will have the 9car electrics. It was Oxford likely to have EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit)...

I thought the 2tph via Bath were going to be 9-car electrics and the 2tph via Parkway 5-car bi-modes. There aren't enough electric sets to have all the electric services actually formed of electric IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.). 4 9-car trains an hour from Bristol-London each hour would obviously be a huge overkill at off-peak times anyway. There hasn't been any post-IEP timetable produced that I've seen yet but people do seem to be questioning whether some of the quoted frequencies and calling patterns are feasible. Squeezing an extra 2tph in from Swindon-London seems ambitious in the first place but IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) the Swansea and one Bristol TM^‡(resolve) via Parkway service are also planned to be fast services, which uses up even more capacity.

That may be the conversation taking place when I heard mentions of 1 extra BRI via BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains), rather than two....

Bi-mode IEPs will be serving the Cotswold line, so 1tph between Paddington and Oxford will be IEP and the other 1tph fast and the  2tph slow trains will be 110mph EMUs.

Yep, that's what I said about 6 posts abover yours!

[Network SouthEast]

Bi-mode IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) will be serving the Cotswold line, so 1tph between Paddington and Oxford will be IEP and the other 1tph fast and the  2tph slow trains will be 110mph EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit).

Yep, that's what I said about 6 posts abover yours!

You said that Oxford services would be cascaded EMUs, what I'm adding is that they'll be 110mph EMUs, which pretty much rules out anything cascaded (plus the other issues such as ETCS^▸ (European Train Control System) provision).

[Network SouthEast]

Looking ahead as to capacity overkill on the Bristol routes along with not enough paths on the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line), I wonder if we might see trains splitting/joining in service as is a regular occurrence elsewhere on the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) railway.

Services could run as 10 car IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) to Swindon for example and then split in to two seperate services, one perhaps to Bristol TM^‡(resolve) via Bath and another to Cardiff. It's just an idea that seems to work well elsewhere.