|
Lee
|
 |
« on: December 19, 2007, 10:49:23 » |
|
Any truth in this rumour, currently doing the forum rounds?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
oooooo
|
|
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2007, 14:14:42 » |
|
Well it definately hasnt happened but the rumor is doing the rounds. What is more definate is a 'rest day working' ban being introduced by ASLEF» for drivers from 29th December. With drivers unable to work 'rest days' expect more cancellations due to 'lack of traincrew'.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
gaf71
|
|
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2007, 17:58:25 » |
|
Any truth in this rumour, currently doing the forum rounds?
There is a notice up in my depot relating to this. Not sure if it is an official RMT▸ document though. Think it is a proposal from an RMT member, asking the union to ballot its members. Sorry, not sure if this helps!  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Tickets Please
|
|
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2007, 19:10:21 » |
|
Yes it is true. Several RMT▸ Branches (Bristol and Plymouth) and others I beleive unaimously voted on motions to put before the RMT Committe asking for a ballot on strike action over the issue. This was agreed on Tuesday by the EC and ballot papers will be sent out shortly to Guard Grades asking if they support (a) strike action and (b) action short of strike action.
Its not a rumour, it is happening
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Any comments made are mine and not that of my employer. My comments do not necessarily reflect the views of my employers and should be taken as my personal opinion.
|
|
|
|
Mookiemoo
|
|
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2007, 22:39:25 » |
|
Yes it is true. Several RMT▸ Branches (Bristol and Plymouth) and others I beleive unaimously voted on motions to put before the RMT Committe asking for a ballot on strike action over the issue. This was agreed on Tuesday by the EC and ballot papers will be sent out shortly to Guard Grades asking if they support (a) strike action and (b) action short of strike action.
Its not a rumour, it is happening
Question is, from a user of the trains.... Why are the managers working the trains? Is it because the guards won't because they dont get overtime? Sorry, I have no sympathy. I work hours for my clients. If they want me to work hours I choose not to because they are not in my standard contract, then I quote a rate I am happy to work for on the extra hours - usually more than my standard rate. If the client doesnt want to pay, fine, if they can get somebody else to do it for less - good on them. If there is another issue.. please enlighten us. Normally it is because managers are covering shifts the guards WON▸ 'T do as a opposed to CAN'T Remember - railworkers are not public sector anymore - they are subject to commercial realities the same as everyone else (and i'm on the side of the drivers, the guards, the staff 99% of the time ) |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Ditched former sig - now I need to think of something amusing - brain hurts -I'll steal from the master himself - Einstein:
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love"
|
|
|
|
gaf71
|
|
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2007, 10:16:44 » |
|
Yes it is true. Several RMT▸ Branches (Bristol and Plymouth) and others I beleive unaimously voted on motions to put before the RMT Committe asking for a ballot on strike action over the issue. This was agreed on Tuesday by the EC and ballot papers will be sent out shortly to Guard Grades asking if they support (a) strike action and (b) action short of strike action.
Its not a rumour, it is happening
Question is, from a user of the trains.... Why are the managers working the trains? Is it because the guards won't because they dont get overtime? Sorry, I have no sympathy. I work hours for my clients. If they want me to work hours I choose not to because they are not in my standard contract, then I quote a rate I am happy to work for on the extra hours - usually more than my standard rate. If the client doesnt want to pay, fine, if they can get somebody else to do it for less - good on them. If there is another issue.. please enlighten us. Normally it is because managers are covering shifts the guards WON▸ 'T do as a opposed to CAN'T Remember - railworkers are not public sector anymore - they are subject to commercial realities the same as everyone else (and i'm on the side of the drivers, the guards, the staff 99% of the time ) Sorry, but you are way off line here. The reason managers are working trains are because of crew shortages, must guards are working loads of overtime at the moment to cover this. If we were not, there would be a lot more cancellations. I have been refused annual leave days 3 times in the last 6 weeks because of crew shortages. If FGW▸ were at full staff capacity this would not happen. Also i will be working overtime this evening( on my rest day ) for which we do get enhanced pay. |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: December 20, 2007, 15:42:26 by gaf71 »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Mookiemoo
|
|
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2007, 14:01:10 » |
|
Yes it is true. Several RMT▸ Branches (Bristol and Plymouth) and others I beleive unaimously voted on motions to put before the RMT Committe asking for a ballot on strike action over the issue. This was agreed on Tuesday by the EC and ballot papers will be sent out shortly to Guard Grades asking if they support (a) strike action and (b) action short of strike action.
Its not a rumour, it is happening
Question is, from a user of the trains.... Why are the managers working the trains? Is it because the guards won't because they dont get overtime? Sorry, I have no sympathy. I work hours for my clients. If they want me to work hours I choose not to because they are not in my standard contract, then I quote a rate I am happy to work for on the extra hours - usually more than my standard rate. If the client doesnt want to pay, fine, if they can get somebody else to do it for less - good on them. If there is another issue.. please enlighten us. Normally it is because managers are covering shifts the guards WON▸ 'T do as a opposed to CAN'T Remember - railworkers are not public sector anymore - they are subject to commercial realities the same as everyone else (and i'm on the side of the drivers, the guards, the staff 99% of the time ) Sorry, but you are way of line here. The reason managers are working trains are because of crew shortages, must guards are working loads of overtime at the moment to cover this. If we were not, there would be a lot more cancellations. I have been refused annual leave days 3 times in the last 6 weeks because of crew shortages. If FGW▸ were at full staff capacity this would not happen. Also i will be working overtime this evening( on my rest day ) for which we do get enhanced pay. So..........if all the guards that exist are working to full capacity........what difference does it make whether FGW hire more guards or staff with managers (as long as managers trained). Makes no difference to the existing staff |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Ditched former sig - now I need to think of something amusing - brain hurts -I'll steal from the master himself - Einstein:
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love"
|
|
|
|
gaf71
|
|
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2007, 15:41:00 » |
|
Yes it is true. Several RMT▸ Branches (Bristol and Plymouth) and others I beleive unaimously voted on motions to put before the RMT Committe asking for a ballot on strike action over the issue. This was agreed on Tuesday by the EC and ballot papers will be sent out shortly to Guard Grades asking if they support (a) strike action and (b) action short of strike action.
Its not a rumour, it is happening
Question is, from a user of the trains.... Why are the managers working the trains? Is it because the guards won't because they dont get overtime? Sorry, I have no sympathy. I work hours for my clients. If they want me to work hours I choose not to because they are not in my standard contract, then I quote a rate I am happy to work for on the extra hours - usually more than my standard rate. If the client doesnt want to pay, fine, if they can get somebody else to do it for less - good on them. If there is another issue.. please enlighten us. Normally it is because managers are covering shifts the guards WON▸ 'T do as a opposed to CAN'T Remember - railworkers are not public sector anymore - they are subject to commercial realities the same as everyone else (and i'm on the side of the drivers, the guards, the staff 99% of the time ) Sorry, but you are way of line here. The reason managers are working trains are because of crew shortages, must guards are working loads of overtime at the moment to cover this. If we were not, there would be a lot more cancellations. I have been refused annual leave days 3 times in the last 6 weeks because of crew shortages. If FGW▸ were at full staff capacity this would not happen. Also i will be working overtime this evening( on my rest day ) for which we do get enhanced pay. So..........if all the guards that exist are working to full capacity........what difference does it make whether FGW hire more guards or staff with managers (as long as managers trained). Makes no difference to the existing staff Thats the whole point, FGW need to employ more staff, which they are in the process of doing. It does make a difference to existing staff when they cant get leave that they are entitled to. If guards didn't work their rest days(i.e. overtime) you would have a lot more cancellations. As for the managers working trains thing, I think that this goes back to a previous agreement between FGW and RMT that managers would not work trains, which they are obviously in breach of. By the way, if the guards withdrew their overtime (as the drivers are doing soon) there wouldn't be enough competent managers to work all the trains anyway  |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: December 20, 2007, 15:43:12 by gaf71 »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Mookiemoo
|
|
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2007, 15:53:14 » |
|
Makes no difference to the existing staff [/quote] Thats the whole point, FGW▸ need to employ more staff, which they are in the process of doing. It does make a difference to existing staff when they cant get leave that they are entitled to. [\quote] I believe that under employment law if you have an annual entitlement to leave you have to be given it - however it does not have to always be when you want it. When I used to be an employee I never wanted to work christmas - but I always had to because I have no children and priority at christmas was always to families. I got my leave at times it was convenient to my employer. [\quote] If guards didn't work their rest days(i.e. overtime) you would have a lot more cancellations. As for the managers working trains thing, I think that this goes back to a previous agreement between FGW and RMT▸ that managers would not work trains, which they are obviously in breach of. By the way, if the guards withdrew their overtime (as the drivers are doing soon) there wouldn't be enough competent managers to work all the trains anyway [/quote] And you see thats where you lose any sympathy and why I dislike unions - why should managers not work trains if they are trained to and they choose to and the work is there? Its a bit like when I worked at ESB (electricity supply board) - I was told off for changing a lightbulb - I'd asked maintenance to change it two weeks before - still wasnt done. So I did it myself. The reason it was not done is because there was not enough maintenance people - but the union still went beserk that I did a job that should have been done by one of their members. If managers were doing it instead of offering overtime I would have sympathy - but if my trains are cancelled because guards are on strike because of this, I wont have any sympathy. As for refusing to do overtime - in the rest of the PRIVATE sector, most people who are salaried would love overtime! So think yourselves lucky |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Ditched former sig - now I need to think of something amusing - brain hurts -I'll steal from the master himself - Einstein:
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love"
|
|
|
|
vacman
|
|
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2007, 16:01:29 » |
|
By managers working trains is just a cheap fix, overtime bills are cheaper than paying additional staff and thus FGW▸ are taking the cheap option, in the meantime no one can get any leave. Why should a manager who's on stupid money do the same job as a guard who's on less money??
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Mookiemoo
|
|
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2007, 16:14:55 » |
|
By managers working trains is just a cheap fix, overtime bills are cheaper than paying additional staff and thus FGW▸ are taking the cheap option, in the meantime no one can get any leave. Why should a manager who's on stupid money do the same job as a guard who's on less money??
Legally they have to give you your contracted leave - just not necessarily when you want it. Thats life. As for "Why should a manager who's on stupid money do the same job as a guard who's on less money??" that statement would make sense only if the other way around i.e. "Why should a guard who's on less money do the same job as a manager who's on stupid money??". If a manager chooses to do a job below his payscale/post, so long as its not removing work or overtime from the holders of the post that should be doing it, it is their choice. And yes, if they choose to take the easy/cheap option and do it that way - that is FGW choice. The rail companies are no longer public employers but private. When public and ex public employees have to deal with the same crap as the rest of the private sector, then they will realise which side of the bread is buttered |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Ditched former sig - now I need to think of something amusing - brain hurts -I'll steal from the master himself - Einstein:
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love"
|
|
|
|
gaf71
|
|
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2007, 16:28:14 » |
|
You are missing the point. Wether you like it or not, the railway is in the hands of the unions, and if we are balloted for strike action, and it is voted for, then it will happen. As for the leave thing, you are right that we are contracted for a certain amount of days per year, but when they get turned down, due to lack of cover because of staff shortages, I suppose i could go sick, but then who would work your trains? A manager? That could lead to strike action...........  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Mookiemoo
|
|
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2007, 19:00:01 » |
|
You are missing the point. Wether you like it or not, the railway is in the hands of the unions, and if we are balloted for strike action, and it is voted for, then it will happen. As for the leave thing, you are right that we are contracted for a certain amount of days per year, but when they get turned down, due to lack of cover because of staff shortages, I suppose i could go sick, but then who would work your trains? A manager? That could lead to strike action........... Legally they HAVE to give you your contracted leave - just no necessarily when you want it. Getting rid of the unions was the best thing Thatcher did - shame we've still got some left. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Ditched former sig - now I need to think of something amusing - brain hurts -I'll steal from the master himself - Einstein:
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love"
|
|
|
|
Tickets Please
|
|
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2007, 19:41:04 » |
|
yawn
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Any comments made are mine and not that of my employer. My comments do not necessarily reflect the views of my employers and should be taken as my personal opinion.
|
|
|
|
Mookiemoo
|
|
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2007, 19:51:29 » |
|
yawn
Yawn if you like - just yawn in the real world |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Ditched former sig - now I need to think of something amusing - brain hurts -I'll steal from the master himself - Einstein:
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love"
|
|
|
|
