Delays at Menheniot

[whole diary]

[StuartStIves]

1702 Padd - PNZ delayed more than 2 hours due to freight train failure at Menheniot (rail adhesion problems requiring a second assisting loco to be sent out).

I had planned to catch 17 Bus from St erth to st Ives - also run by First Group - but last bus will now have gone by time train arrives late at St Erth.  Train Manager tried to persuade FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Control to provide a taxi connection instead, but they refused as there is no advertised train connection and buses - even those also run by First - don't count.  So thanks First Group for leaving me stranded at St Erth. Why don't the bus and train parts  of First talk to each other in Cornwall? What happened to First's promise of integrated transport if they ran both buses and trains?

[Ollie]

Unfortunate but true.

You paid for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to get you to St Erth which they did, admittedly it was late - try customer services see if you get goodwill vouchers, but obviously no guarantee.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Stuart: I, too, am very sorry - and I'm not First, or FGW^▸ (First Great Western), staff - but that's just the way it is. 

If only there was integrated transport between First Group's trains and buses - but there just isn't, yet. 

[Worcester_Passenger]

Ah yes, "integrated transport".

There's an issue on the bus side, where the Office of Fair Trading would get very upset if FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and First Devon and Cornwall were to talk to one another, on the grounds that it might give FDC a competitive advantage over other bus operators. In this context, "get very upset" would eventually translate into very big fines.

When First got the Scotrail franchise, they had issues with their bus operations in Scotland. The Glasgow and Aberdeen bus networks are very urban and don't compete that much with the trains, but their bus services in the central belt (Falkirk, Livingston etc) do. Especially various commuter coaches from there into Glasgow and Edinburgh. First had to agree to continue to operate these services for x years. Alas, such is the traffic congestion into the cities that there's now very few passengers left on board. But there was an outcry when, after x years, First (bus) proposed to take them off.

It is possible to do some integration if the bus services are operated under contract for Cornwall Council, but if they're commercial (and I'd imagine that St Ives is commercial), then it's difficult. And if it's the same group doing the trains and the buses then they have to be squeaky clean.

[Worcester_Passenger]

A further thought. What would have happened if you'd been travelling with a PlusBus ticket to St Ives? Does anyone know what the conditions of carriage says about the implied contract that's involved?

[eightf48544]

Just anothe example of the crazy way we organise public transport.

Public transport is not a "Competitive" industry it's anatural monopoly, bus companies shouldn't compete with bus comapnies or trains, similarly trains shouldn't compete with trains or buses.

What we require are local tariff unions where all services in the area are priced the same and the tickets can be used on trams buses trains and ferries interchageably.

We are steadly wrecking the postal service with this obsession with "competiton".

When Rowland Hill introduced the "Penny Black" it was recognised that for it to work there had to be a monopoly provider. Namely the General Post Office.

Now you have the stupid situation of lots of haldf empty trucks  belting up the M! with letters which are dropped off at the local delivery point. Instead a couple of postal trains from Willesden. Any sensible government should have extended teh psotal tube from Paddington to Willesden.

Rant over.

[Andy]

Hear hear, eightf48544. Both economically and ecologically, it makes no sense to me either.

[RailCornwall]

The last thing we need in Cornwall is a local tariff union, as with all of these things FGW^▸ (First Great Western) fares would rise to match the buses. No thanks.

[vacman]

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and FDC seem to have a pretty good working relationship, quite often when the Falmouth branch goes up the swanny FDC allow rail tickets to be used on the 88 bus service from Truro to Falmouth, and the two companies also have a reciprical staff travel arrangment in Devon and Cornwall for staff travelling on duty, i.e. FGW staff can travel free to/from work on FDC busses and FDC staff can do the same on FGW services, this arrangment has been in place for over 12 months now.

[Cornish Traveller]

  I seem to remember timetables from 1980`s used to state rail tickets between SER and St Ives were valid on Western National bus.  This was before wonderful privatisation of Uk Buses and Railways came about of course !!
Ref. about what if you had a Plus ticket - would you be stranded if you had a Ride Cornwall ticket ?

[inspector_blakey]

As an aside, seeing as you were two hours late at your destination (124 minutes to be precise), you can obtain a refund for your ticket in travel vouchers. If it was a return then the refund will be for 100% of the value of the ticket, i.e. both outward and return journeys. If it was a single then you'll get a 100% refund as well.

[StuartStIves]

Thanks for your various comments and sympathy! A ^13 taxi fare got me home in the end, but any later than 1am I would have  faced a long walk.

Re: PlusBus - Not sure what would happen here. I recall Barry Doe once stating that TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) would have had to provide a taxi if the last bus was missed, but what FGW^▸ (First Great Western) staff in the Control office would do is unknown.  St Ives - St Erth does not and never will have a PlusBus scheme as PlusBus are not allowed to operate where there is a 'competing' bus and rail service. The Falmouth PlusBus scheme for example does not permit use of the ticket on local train journey's between Penryn and Falmouth Docks.

Re: Cornwall Council Subsidised Services - The evening bus service from Penzance to St Ives is subsidised by Cornwall Council.  However the Council has no interest in introducing inter-available bus/rail tickets except for the Ride Cornwall day ticket which is aimed at off peak tourist travel.  No plans for Travelcards / Oystercards in Cornwall so far I'm afraid.

Re: Rail / Bus Exchange Tickets in the 1970s - Yes in the 'bad' old days of BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) and the National Bus Company - both state owned - it was possible to exchange your rail ticket for a bus ticket on the same travel corridor. 1970s BR Timetables used to include times of Western National buses between St Erth and St Ives when the Branch line services finished for the day and on Winter Sundays - but not any more.

At a recent Penwith Transport Forum meeting, a manager of First Devon and Cornwall buses was asked why they could not have inter-available rail and bus tickets.  He said if First Great Wstern paid us for them we would.
   

[SDS]

When First got the Scotrail franchise, they had issues with their bus operations in Scotland. The Glasgow and Aberdeen bus networks are very urban and don't compete that much with the trains, but their bus services in the central belt (Falkirk, Livingston etc) do. Especially various commuter coaches from there into Glasgow and Edinburgh. First had to agree to continue to operate these services for x years. Alas, such is the traffic congestion into the cities that there's now very few passengers left on board. But there was an outcry when, after x years, First (bus) proposed to take them off.

I remember reading something about this, First wanted to change the boundaries of some cheap/rover ticket, or wanted to withdraw something and had to apply to the DaFT^» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) or OFT for permission.

edit: ah here it is http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/mergers/comment/consultations/FirstGroupreview