Oh First Great Western, what shall we do?

[whole diary]

[Jim]

And HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) even better. I couldn't imagine sitting on top of an engine for 5 hours from somewhere like Penzance - Paddington

But we then come to the typical problem - seats!

[Timmer]

Would Sir Richard Branson do any better if he had the chance to take over the franchise?

Yes he would still have to encounter the same daily operating problems as now but at least moral of the staff would be raised and Sir Richard would listen to his staff for suggestions

Perhaps moral is a good place to start with management talking to its staff who listen to the passengers comments and problems daily..........a few new fresh ideas would help things along to improve matters

After all, no staff no company, but more important the passenger is king and should be treated as such

Welcome to the forum Superwang.

[Trowres]

Would Sir Richard Branson do any better if he had the chance to take over the franchise?

Hmmmmmm, "Virgin Great Western," maybe.

Oh no! With the current reliability of NR^» (Network Rail - home page)'s Western lines, that would be Virgin on the ridiculous 

[smokey]

Any other company would have the same problems of massive and somewhat stupid franchise payments if they had been the winning bidder, not to forget the appauling infrastructure!

CORRECT

Some people think it will all change overnight with a change of franchise ownership. How wrong they are. Better the devil you know!

It's WRONG to compare FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s Franchise Bid with GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways)'s Bid.
You wouldn't compare Tescos with Spar, so don't compare FGW with GNER, GNER ONLYrun Inter-City Services and whilst GNER ran rings round FGW, I bet National Express will Run East Coast as well as GNER.

[smokey]

If the franchise changed hands nothing would happen. If it split in two, like it used to be, it might change for the better.

Sorry that's not right. It's OVER 2 years since FGW^▸ (First Great Western) won the franchise, 2 YEARS in which FGW could work with the Unions and harmonised staff terms and conditions so that HST^▸ (High Speed Train) train crew could work local trains when needed and v/v.
Untill Harmonised FGW IS IN FACT STILLrun as 3 companies.
But then can you EXPECT FGW to do ANYTHING SENSIBLE

The bigger the franchise the better, BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) ran services a HELL of a LOT better than we get today.

[Conner]

If the franchise changed hands nothing would happen. If it split in two, like it used to be, it might change for the better.

Sorry that's not right. It's OVER 2 years since FGW^▸ (First Great Western) won the franchise, 2 YEARS in which FGW could work with the Unions and harmonised staff terms and conditions so that HST^▸ (High Speed Train) train crew could work local trains when needed and v/v.
Untill Harmonised FGW IS IN FACT STILLrun as 3 companies.
But then can you EXPECT FGW to do ANYTHING SENSIBLE

The bigger the franchise the better, BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) ran services a HELL of a LOT better than we get today.

Which part of the FGW area are you from?

[simonw]

If the franchise changed hands nothing would happen. If it split in two, like it used to be, it might change for the better.

Sorry that's not right. It's OVER 2 years since FGW^▸ (First Great Western) won the franchise, 2 YEARS in which FGW could work with the Unions and harmonised staff terms and conditions so that HST^▸ (High Speed Train) train crew could work local trains when needed and v/v.
Untill Harmonised FGW IS IN FACT STILLrun as 3 companies.
But then can you EXPECT FGW to do ANYTHING SENSIBLE

The bigger the franchise the better, BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) ran services a HELL of a LOT better than we get today.

I'm not sure I agree with the above. Anyone looking back nostalgically to the days of BR are probably wearing rose tinted spectacles. From the start, BR job was to  minimise the cost of rail to the country.

We are still living we the consequent of merging regional companies to a large central company, with central investment plans that ignored the West Country.

The most successful post BR franchise was probably Virgin's Cross Country. Despite not being a principal rail franchise, and crossing many NR^» (Network Rail - home page) areas, it doubled it passenger numbers, had greater reliability and punctuality that FGW. That is a considerable achievement.

Finally, the fact that FGW has decided not merge, or has not been able to merge the Thames, Wessex and Intercity parts of it's franchise suggests that mega franchises are not a good idea. I would be happy to see the government split FGW into three separately franchise with appropriate franchise payments and subsidies for the duration of the current franchise. This is an achievable goal!

[Shazz]

There is no easy fix to the current issues with FGW^▸ (First Great Western). It simply wont be solved by nationalising it.

What would be good though would be a considerable investment in new rolling stock.
A huge recruitment drive for new drivers, guards, rpi's, etc.

Unfortunatly, i can't see either of them happening. With FGW, or if it got re nationalised.

The government have spent far to much money on northern rock to bother with the huge investment they'd need to take FGW under there own control.

The only way to nationalise FGW (as they have done nothing wrong in the contract they have with the dft) is to buy 51% (At LEAST 10Bn pounds) share holding in first group, and The government would end up having to run/ selling off:


Rail services

First Great Western
TransPennine Express (55% stake)
First ScotRail
FirstGBRf
Hull Trains (80% stake)

Light rail services

TramLink

Bus and coach services

First Glasgow (formerly First Kelvin and First Greater Glasgow)
First Aberdeen (formerly First Grampian)
First Edinburgh (formerly First SMT^▸ (Special Measurement Train), First Borders and First Midland Bluebird)
First Pennine (which forms part of First Manchester)
First Leeds
First York
First Bradford
First Calderdale & Huddersfield
First Manchester
First South Yorkshire
First Potteries (Operating in Staffordshire and South Cheshire)
First Chester & The Wirral
First Leicester
First Eastern Counties
Ipswich Rapid Transit
First Wyvern (formerly First Midland Red West)
First Cymru
First Berkshire & Thames Valley
First Somerset & Avon (formerly Badgerline & First Southern National)
First Essex (formerly First Eastern National)
First London & South East
First Bristol (formerly First Cityline)
First Hampshire & Dorset (formerly First Southampton and First Provincial)
First Devon & Cornwall (formerly First Western National)
Aircoach (Dublin)
New World First Bus (Hong Kong)
First Transit (Bus and rapid transit in USA)
First Student (School Bus services all over United States)
Greyhound Lines

So re-nationalisation really isnt going to happen. Whichever bunch of blithering idiots came up with this as a "good" idea, need to be hit around the head with the Common sence stick.

[Btline]

So re-nationalisation really isnt going to happen. Whichever bunch of blithering idiots came up with this as a "good" idea, need to be hit around the head with the Common sence stick.

Please do not call me an idiot! I just put the option on the poll to see what people thought.

Besides, the gov. took over from Connex when they did a bad job, keeping the service going until it could be rebid. This worked well, and Govia are now doing a superb job!!

So it is not that bad an idea, is it?

[John R]

A lot of this is down to First Group. As an example, the latest Golden Spanner Awards in Modern Railways (stock reliability) shows how badly FGW^▸ (First Great Western) maintain its trains. As an example its fleet of Class 143s is the worst performing of the Pacer fleets, with only 2,037 miles per casualty, compared with 2,950 for Arriva Trains Wales' fleet of Class 143s, and 3,777 for the much derided fleet of Northern Class 142s, which have now moved down here.

Over the last year Arriva has improved it's 143 performance from 2,200 mpc to 2,950, whereas FGW performance has fallen from 2,811 to 2,037.

The performance of First's HST^▸ (High Speed Train) fleet is also worse than either Midland Main Line or GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways) over the year, although admittedly this has shown a marked improvement from the previous year (though not enough to catch up with the others).

And that's before the huge number of cancellations and short workings we're seeing because of shortages of staff. So it is a valid question to ask whether someone else could do better, and one which I think this whole forum will debate for a long time to come. 

   

[Shazz]

So re-nationalisation really isnt going to happen. Whichever bunch of blithering idiots came up with this as a "good" idea, need to be hit around the head with the Common sence stick.

Please do not call me an idiot! I just put the option on the poll to see what people thought.

Besides, the gov. took over from Connex when they did a bad job, keeping the service going until it could be rebid. This worked well, and Govia are now doing a superb job!!

So it is not that bad an idea, is it?

It wasnt directed at you, its directed at the group of "mps" who think its a good idea.

And yes it IS a bad idea, as they have to take over the entire of first group (unless first sell off fgw (which wont happen)). So they'd be in control of a large proportion of services that they dont need...

Sure it "might" be alright for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) region, but it'll be a severe **** up for everywhere else.

[Btline]

So re-nationalisation really isnt going to happen. Whichever bunch of blithering idiots came up with this as a "good" idea, need to be hit around the head with the Common sence stick.

Please do not call me an idiot! I just put the option on the poll to see what people thought.

Besides, the gov. took over from Connex when they did a bad job, keeping the service going until it could be rebid. This worked well, and Govia are now doing a superb job!!

So it is not that bad an idea, is it?

It wasnt directed at you, its directed at the group of "mps" who think its a good idea.

And yes it IS a bad idea, as they have to take over the entire of first group (unless first sell off fgw (which wont happen)). So they'd be in control of a large proportion of services that they dont need...

Sure it "might" be alright for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) region, but it'll be a severe **** up for everywhere else.

Ok, I didn't realise.

However, the gov. could strip First Group of the Greater Western franchise, and then take it over.

This WOULD NOT require them to take over first group.

And yes, I agree with John R. Of course it is down to First that they operate such an abysmal service. Their staff are appalling, and a lot must be slackers, not turning up to do their job (hence= "cancelled due to a member of train crew being unavailable"). Gosh, in the days of GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) I bet this didn't happen. And it is First's fault that they do not have extra staff to cope with this.

And don't tell me that Andrew Haines has stated that they are hiring more staff. I do not believe a single word that he says. No: sacking, sorry "moving on," Alison Forster does not change a thing!!! The managing director/chief operating "officer" (what a joke of a title!) of FGW lie and blag and lie and blag, while they sit back on their comfortable salary. They have promised so much, had several timetable changes, and yet they deliver nought.

Ok, dft or sra tell operators what services to do, but these are minimum. Wessex did not axe services, First did. That's the difference.

[devon_metro]

Can't see the lazy staff comment going down well, its simply not true.

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) staff work long hours and in bad conditions with abusive passengers.

Quite simply there aren't enough staff when lots of people want some time off around xmas.

[willc]

It's not on to call FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s staff slackers. The reason so many trains were cancelled over the weekend and on recent weekdays is down to the simple fact that there aren't enough traincrew on FGW's books to operate the normal timetable and cover for sickness and holidays to start with.

The cancellations were because not enough of them volunteered to work overtime and turn up for duty on a rest day. That's not their fault, that is down to an FGW management team which has been relying on staff working rest days to keep services running and has taken it for granted they will. This attitude, I'm sure, has contributed to the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) and Aslef calling strike ballots.

And do you really want your trains to be operated by drivers and conductors who are constantly working extra days, week after week? I don't, as it doesn't sound like a recipe for safe operating in the long run.

But please don't get the idea that the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) have a minimal part in what's going on. They are up to their necks in it. The disastrous December 2006 timetable was entirely their doing, as was the cut in the Wessex train fleet at the same time. Civil servants exert far more control over the timetables, operations and train fleets of supposed private operators than ever they did in the days of nationalised British Rail. Do you seriously suppose that any railway manager with half a brain would have axed all CrossCountry services from the South West and South Coast to the Lake District and the West of Scotland? That's what the DfT has just done.

[devon_metro]

I think the word needs to get out, and perhaps we can single handedly destroy the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)?

Whilst we are at it, we may give Melksham a good service. 

Edit by Graham - please; I for one don't want to "destroy" the DfT. Much better to work with them to turn around decision that were based on pessimistic forecasts, and before the environment was considered so ... for the mutual good.   Not just the Christmas spirit - I'll be saying the same thing in the new year