Virgin passengers left stranded overnight in Canada

[whole diary]

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

More than 250 passengers travelling on a flight from London have been left stranded overnight in a Canadian airport after an emergency landing.

The 255 passengers were left at Gander Airport in Newfoundland after a "technical fault" forced the VS25 plane from Heathrow to New York to land.

Virgin Atlantic apologised to passengers and said hotel accommodation could not be found. A spokeswoman said food and drink costs would be refunded.

The flight was forced to land in Canada at 22:30 local time on Saturday (02:00 BST, Sunday) with a relief flight due to take off from Gander for New York John F. Kennedy at 16:55 (20:25 BST) on Sunday.

A Virgin Atlantic spokeswoman told the BBC: "Virgin Atlantic can confirm that flight VS25 from London Heathrow to New York JFK diverted to Gander due to a technical fault. Our engineers are on their way to the site to inspect the plane. The safety and welfare of passengers and crew is Virgin Atlantic's top priority. The airline would like to thank passengers for their patience and apologise for any inconvenience caused."

A message on the airline's Twitter account said: "Unfortunately, hotels in the local area are full - and despite our best efforts we've been unable to get any for customers or staff. Apologies for this."

[TonyK]

I'd rather spend the night on the tarmac at St Johns than set off over the Atlantic with a warning light flashing. Planes fly with defects all the time, but the pilot would not have landed had he not thought it to be too serious to risk carrying on. As an analogy, you would not hesitate to make a journey in the car if the interior light was u/s, but you wouldn't leave home with a loose wheel.

[Super Guard]

I'm surprised given Virgin Atlantic's tie-up with Delta that they couldn't get a suitable plane from NYC to Gander any quicker than 18 hours after landing - and i'm guessing they knew it was game over before the emergency landing...

[grahame]

I have been delayed 12 hours in the USA for a Virgin flight, and my daughter on a school trip for 18 hours.    Yet we still use the airline.   Why?   Because they do an excellent job of keeping the customer informed, they respect the fact that the customer has some intelligence and interest, and they go to some trouble to make the wait as pleasant and hassle free as possible.

In contrast, airlline .... no, I'm not going to name them, but I could list others where the customer relations where there were similar (or lesser) delays were such that it's "never again if I can help it".  24 hours at LGW, 12 hours at MSP^▸ (Member of Scottish Parliament), and I won't tell you about Arlanda or Heathrow incidents!

Perhaps it's this Virgin approach which makes them so very popular with their passengers on the train front too?

[ChrisB]

4TN, it had already crossed the Alantic....

[TonyK]

4TN, it had already crossed the Alantic....

In which case, I misunderstood the direction of flight, but I would rather be stuck on a Virgin plane overnight than risk onward flight to the Land of the Brave and the Home of the Free, possibly over the Rockies if it was bound for California. An aviation maxim I have heard often, and repeated more than once, is that it is better to be down here wishing you were up there, than up there wishing you were down here.

I don't know the nature of the fault yet, but whatever it is, I am sure the pilot would not have landed without a good reason. He would have had the final decision, but would have discussed it with his First Officer, and more than likely, the company engineering base before making his decision. Telemetrics from the aircraft are transmitted constantly to that base, so the decision would not have been taken without evidence. The final decision rests with the pilot in command,and the most valuable safety system in an aircraft is the five inches between the PIC's shoulders and the bottom of his head.

Every pilot who wants to draw a pension flies by rules. There are certain emergencies where the only correct action is to land at the earliest opportunity, even if that is in a field. That is highly unlikely in a civil commercial jet, despite Denzil Washington's commendable actions in the film "Flight". Others would involve immediate diversion to the nearest available airport, or could permit continuation of the flight to final destination with adjustments to speed, altitude, or whatever, all carefully monitored. Some of the rules are made by the ICAO or the national regulatory body - CAA^» (Civil Aviation Authority - about) in Britain, FAA in USA - some are made by the manufacturer, others are matters of written company policy.

I support the pilot in this instance, because he knows far more about flying than I do. He may be pilloried by his passengers, but that is better than being pilloried posthumously by their relatives. As for the rescue, finding a replacement HST^▸ (High Speed Train) for a failed unit is nigh impossible at peak times, and finding a replacement for a $200 million A340 or similar is no easier.

I once declined to take off with a failed landing light because I did not know why it wasn't working, even though I was flying only by day, and could have done so perfectly legally and safely. It turned out to be a blown bulb, and I left 30 minutes later, but it could have been a more serious underlying problem. I have been a passenger on an aircraft delayed by a failed flaps computer, which showed asymmetric flap deployment. The pilot could have gone without repair, trusting his own judgment of the performance of the plane when he deployed flaps, or getting someone to watch the flaps from a window - they have painted gradations. But it would need eventual replacement, and my delay was only an hour.

Air passengers expect too much sometimes. Look at the tragic tale of the popstar Aaliyah, where a combination of factors including her wish to get home quick following the earlier than expected finish of a video shoot led to her earlier than expected demise, and that of many of her entourage. It is known variously as "Gethomeitis" and "Pressonitis", and it is lethal. It doesn't matter how much money you have, you take chances with these things at your peril.

[eightf48544]

The other point not highlighted was that Virgin seems to have tried to book hotel places but found all local hotels full. St John's is not that big 200.000 or so!

I wonder if an airline faced with 200 pasengers stranded in Leeds or Bristol would be able to book hotel rooms.

[TonyK]

I wonder if an airline faced with 200 pasengers stranded in Leeds or Bristol would be able to book hotel rooms.

That's a good question. from time to time, My department's head office was in Leeds for a while. I had to go there and our booking agency often had trouble finding somewhere to stay, even when booking a month in advance.

Bristol was shocking for hotel space in the late 1970s, when I moved here. It has improved greatly since, but that is because there are more than enough customers to go around as a rule, and occupancy rates are fairly high. Airlines have well-developed contingency arrangements around the likes of Heathrow and Gatwick, and can probably hotel an entire 747 with a couple of calls to booking agencies. Bristol will have little in comparison, and if the event occurred during the Harbour Festival or Balloon Fiesta, you would struggle, even if you went down to B&B level.

BA^» (British Airways - about), Virgin, and the like put their crew in 4* minimum hotels. Aircrew avoid jet lag by sticking to GMT (or strictly UTC,  Universal Time Constant, which is the same time as GMT) wherever they are. Certainly, they need their kip, and would be my first priority for housing. The first check-list that any pilot on any flight goes through is "I'M SAFE". Is my performance likely to be affected by:
Illness
Medication
Stress
Alcohol (20 mg per 100 ml, a quarter of the limit for a car in UK^▸ (United Kingdom))
Fatigue (my emphasis) and have I
Eaten sufficient to sustain me through the journey.

If the answer to any one of these is unfavourable, then someone else flies the plane. Of those factors, one could argue that alcohol intake, medication, and food are within the control of the pilot. I knew someone who had a tooth extracted without even local anaesthetic because it would have grounded him for 24 hours.

So a plane full of knackered, angry, hungry, tipsy passengers flown by a pampered and well-rested crew will arrive safely. The PR^▸ (Public Relations) guys can deal with the flak, and if it isn't a regular occurrence, it will not impact passenger loyalty in any big way.

St Johns, Newfoundland, doesn't have much infrastructure beyond the airport. Flying the shortest route between North America and Northern Europe - a great arc, rather than a straight line - it is the last airport out and first airport in, and has great strategic value for emergencies, but not a lot of hotel space. I fully understand why Virgin could not find sufficient beds. As an aside, my son-in-law went there for the day once. He mends planes for the RAF^▸ (Royal Air Force), and as he was about to pack up and return to my daughter for dinner, he was told to pack a team and all the equipment he needed to replace the forward undercarriage of a VC10 tanker into a C-17. Sleeping on the plane, he and his team burst forth onto the tarmac 8 hours later at St Johns, spanners in hand, and were told that the VC10 had a departure slot another 8 hours later. The C-17 went home without them. They finished the job with minutes to spare, slept in the VC10 on the way home, and arrived home in time for a burnt dinner for breakfast and another day's work. They had spent the day in Canada without so much as a cup of tea. After that, they were given time off for a couple of days, and soon ceased to think of themselves as hard done by..