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Alan Pettitt
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« on: September 06, 2013, 01:13:46 » |
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A bit fed up! 28.08.13 I bought a ticket at Frome 15 minutes before the scheduled arrival of the 1015 train, the platform was well full, what happens? Two coaches again. The train was already full and standing. I actually forced my way on to the train, there was barely any room, poor girl with crutches I helped on and had to wedge against me at the door. People left behind on platform. Very few people buy a ticket at Frome before boarding, ticket machine doesn't accept cash (even though it says it does! ) Absolutely no attempt to collect the fares on the train, so presumably the management would never know how horrendous the journey was.
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grahame
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« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2013, 06:37:06 » |
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Welcome to the forum, Alan
Fare collection comes after safety and after operation in the role of the train manager. Usually there is time for fare collection but at times of unusual passenger flows (i.e. many more people than usual) on trains that stop at lots of intermediate stations (such as Frome towards Bristol) and are full and standing, the whole train won't be covered.
It worries me too - but a little less than it used to. Firstly, the conductor reports passenger counts at various stages on the journey for each service, and my understanding is that's going to be a well-educated estimate if he / she's not able to get through and actually count. Secondly, with barriers in Bath and Bristol, people headed there will be able to / required to catch up on ticket purchase before they leave the station. And thirdly - there is a point where some income leakage is cheaper than collecting ... I've seen it and discussed it before in relation to substitute bus operations late at night, where providing an extra member of staff to collect a few pounds from one or two local travellers (long distance people already having tickets) would cost more than the revenue raised, even before you allow for "cap and collar"; you have a different scenario but ... nice day, last week of school holidays, perhaps an event on that FGW▸ weren't aware of such as Frome Town v Freshford Village in the cricket cup at Freshford ...
As I say , it worries me - especially if it's something along the lines of "you can ALWAYS avoid paying from X to Y on the 10:xx" ... but not quite as much as it used to. I would like to see other / better fare collection systems in place to reduce travel being taken for free, but adding staff in case of occasional peak (?) or even for one busy train per day probably isn't best. On line tickets (no need to collect) and things like that should allow the very limited time train managers have to pick up the few remaining people who need to buy on train, and irregular and pseudo random checks should ensure that most people don't 'chance' it even if there tickets are checked only occasionally. But, yes, it feels we're quite a way from there at the moment and many of us (sorry, I'm one) resent seeing freeloaders on a train and think "did I really need to pay". The answer to the last rhetorical question is a resounding "yes" just in case anyone who come to this thread many wonder.
Long answer ... hopefully helping rather than drowning discussion. Big topic. Welcome, Alan
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Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
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Alan Pettitt
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« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2013, 12:49:09 » |
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Thank you very much for the welcome and VERY comprehensive reply!
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phile
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« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2013, 21:05:36 » |
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Don.t forget also, that additional stock doesn.t grow on trees and 2 Coaches are the norm on Weymouths beyond Westbury except weekends and School Holidays.
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ellendune
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« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2013, 21:52:57 » |
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additional stock doesn.t grow on trees
Perhaps with all this genetic engineering we could soon get to a stage where additional stock does grow on trees. .. I'll get my coat. |
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Phil
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« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2013, 23:00:12 » |
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Perhaps with all this genetic engineering we could soon get to a stage where additional stock does grow on trees.
.. I'll get my coat.
And I'll get my goat... |
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2013, 00:44:02 » |
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... Frome ... ticket machine doesn't accept cash (even though it says it does!) ...
... and the ticket vending machines at Nailsea & Backwell also claim to accept payment by cash, but they don't, and haven't done for years now ...  Apart from that: Welcome to the Coffee Shop forum, Alan!  |
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William Huskisson MP▸ was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830. Many more have died in the same way since then. Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.
"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner." Discuss.
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trainer
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« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2013, 11:30:25 » |
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... and the ticket vending machines at Nailsea & Backwell also claim to accept payment by cash, but they don't, and haven't done for years now ... Nor Yatton, the last time I tried. |
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thetrout
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« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2013, 21:22:31 » |
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Hi Alan and may I offer my welcome to the forum too.
I am a regular user of Frome station. Your comments about the 10:15 intrigue me slightly. This is the first Off Peak northbound service from Frome of the day. But for it to be as busy as you suggest. It seems they may have used a different set for that working on that particular day. Wasn't this also the week of Reading Festival? You may have just been unfortunate on this particular day as there have been alot of festivals in this area recently.
Your comments about the ticket machine however I do agree with. Personally I won't use it, as in the past it has double charged me for a First Anytime Return from Frome - Shrewsbury (one of the only tickets I buy that is priced in the hundreds). It can also be very picky with certain types of cards and as you say does not accept cash.
Frome and Trowbridge had their ticket machines (TVM▸ ) removed around 2008 - 2009 due to vandalism in an attempt to get at the cash inside. At a cost of ^30,000 or there abouts per machine. The loss of revenue was smaller than constantly repairing the TVMs. (As I understand anyway). Frome
got it's machine back in the last 18 months. Trowbridge is still waiting for their 2 to be returned!
When I make local journeys they are nearly always to Bath Spa, Bristol Temple Meads or Taunton. These stations are all manned with a gateline so at some point, be it on the Frome - Bath Spa train, a connecting train or at the gateline at the end of the journey. I will have paid the fare due.
I also think it's wise to point out that some of these passengers will have season tickets, staff passes, company warrants etc. I also regularly travel to Southend-on-Sea and nearly always have a ticket in advance of travel.
I'm going to finish there as I'm typing on a smartphone and need to get off my train in about 10 minutes. However I hope that gives you some further insight into Frome station.
Any questions feel free to ask away :-)
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Alan Pettitt
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« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2013, 12:29:41 » |
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Thanks for your input, you're right on the stock, two coach SWT▸ unit. When the ticket machine first reappeared at Frome it did accept cash, then stopped. My issue is that there is frequently a queue at said machine and people in front of you spend ages trying to find the ticket they want, get to the 'buy' bit and find that it won't accept cash. The sign on the machine still says 'cash or card'.
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thetrout
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« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2013, 17:33:06 » |
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Ah the 2 Coach Class 158 South West Trains unit? Presumably First Class was empty?
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TonyK
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The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!
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« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2013, 20:53:49 » |
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This is the SWT▸ unit, hired in because FGW▸ don't have anything spare. This is not going to get better until stock begins to be cascaded as new stuff comes into operation elsewhere.
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Now, please!
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BandHcommuter
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« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2013, 06:36:40 » |
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Like thetrout, I am also a regular user of Frome station, and agree that it is rare for the 1015 to be quite so overcrowded, but it's always busy. In the summer you do get quite a lot of longer distance holiday traffic returning from Weymouth, interchanging at Bristol or Bath. When added to the usual local traffic and day trippers, it can get extremely busy. I remember on one occasion the 1015 being a single coach train, and FGW▸ ran a bus service to mop up the passengers who could not yet on the train.
Regarding ticket purchase at Frome, the staffed ticket office is normally open at this time of day. However, when the regular member of staff is off, it is not uncommon for the ticket office to be left unstaffed all day (I don't know if this was the case on the day in question). Furthermore the self-service ticket machine is currently hidden behind scaffolding during a major refurbishment of Frome station, so it would not surprise me if more passengers than usual are boarding the train at Frome without tickets.
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Alan Pettitt
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« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2013, 10:06:12 » |
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Yes, must have been a one off, I've been on the same train this morning since Dorchester, nearly at Frome now, plenty of spare seats!
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thetrout
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« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2013, 11:25:29 » |
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Ah the 2 Coach Class 158 South West Trains unit? Presumably First Class was empty?
Reason I posted that is the hired in South West Trains Class 158 Unit has it's First Class declassified. So you *can* actually sit in there with a Standard Class ticket. Both myself and my sister went to Bristol last Saturday week and ended up on the 20:07 Bath Spa - Frome train. We decided to sit in the First Class section so she could charge her iPhone. I knew it was declassified however a lot of people clearly didn't/don't. No announcements were made saying "If you're standing you can sit in the blue seats" The issue however that causes is when you take the 16:05ish (from memory?) from Bath Spa - London Waterloo. That is a South West Trains service and First Class is not declassified! I agree it would seem most likely a one off. As I said, I believe that was Reading Festival Week so it wouldn't surprise me at all. |
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