Warminster to Salisbury disused stations

[whole diary]

[teamsaint]

Hello all

couldn't see this discussed anywhere else, apologies if i missed it !

Just wondered if there is ever any discussion about reopening one of the stations on this stretch. It must be the longest stretch on the line without a halt.

Wylie would be a great strategic spot, right on the A36/A303 junctions, so car and bus connections would be good.

Any thoughts from you experts?

Cheers
TS

[grahame]

Hello all

couldn't see this discussed anywhere else, apologies if i missed it !

Just wondered if there is ever any discussion about reopening one of the stations on this stretch. It must be the longest stretch on the line without a halt.

Wylie would be a great strategic spot, right on the A36/A303 junctions, so car and bus connections would be good.

Any thoughts from you experts?

Cheers
TS

Hi ... and welcome to the forum.   Either here or "Campaigns"  are appropriate places.

I've just got home after a long journey (things to write up!) but to start you off, look at my suggestion of where we may be in 10 years time, I think it was, at
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=5272.0

And I (and I expect others) will come back and comment further on both Wylye, and Wilton which was on the recent short list of 10 projects put forward for funding by the Local Transport Board for Swindon and Wiltshire.   It didn't make the 'cut' I'm afraid ...

[Lee]

Wylie would be a great strategic spot, right on the A36/A303 junctions, so car and bus connections would be good.

Hmmm. Not entirely sure that one journey in each direction on Tuesday, Friday and Saturday only really counts as "good bus connections"...

Welcome to the forum anyway, though.

[grahame]

There are many, many aspects to look at with a new station. 

What would the traffic be and how would it get to the station?   Where would they be going?  Who would pay for the station?  What trains would stop - if they're new services, where would they run and where would you get the trains, and if it was exisiting trains would the existing passenges be happy with the slow down? Would the traffic simply be abstrated from another station - needless dilution?  Would there be community support to make it a success? Would the line's infrastructure have the capacity for the stops / is it opeationally sound?   Could you really load the trains well, summer and winter, weekday and weekend, in both directions?

Amazingly (!) there are a few places/lines where the answer is "yes, I can answer that" to each of the facets, and that's not out of the question for Wylye Parkway, but would require considerable foresight!  Being on a stretch of line without another intermediate station isn't really a blessing - in fact it could be the reverse - "no local trains to stop, so no point in building you a station" has been a major problem elsewhere in Wiltshire. At the moment bus connection aren't going to make a huge difference, I'm afraid, quite apart from the fact that I would question buses as a significant justification at a station in the middle of the countryside with no target town as you have at Bodmin, Ashchurch and Tiverton.

The Westbury to Salisbury line is the southern end of the TransWilts.  And it's also the only section of the whole Portsmouth - Cardiff line which has less than a half hourly service.  You have Portsmouth - Southampton, Southampton - Salisbury, Westbury - Bristol and Bristol - Cardiff "all stations" trains running hourly, as well as the long distance trains, giving a two train an hour service.  However, you have a wide and wonderful (!) selection south from Westbury ... a couple of services a day to Salisbury, three to Waterloo, one to Brighton, and three to Southampton which would go through the site of Wylye. You also have 4 services from Westbury that turn back at Warminster.   There is a case for looking at this mix and asking if it's best suited for future needs, or whether a clockface service, hourly and 30 minute apart from the long distance train, would be a better use of the current resource.   And to that question you can add the question as to whether the two diesel units per hour that terminate from the east at Salisbury and sit there idle for a while might extend / link in to a tidied up set of services to / towards / via Westbury.  Some do already in a way - the Waterloo to Bristol route.

There's probably going to be quite a major shakeup to make timetable changes such as those, and it's not something for the 2 to 3 year management contract that we're expecting to see awarded in the next 2 weeks. Rather, it will come at the time of electification to Newbury from London and a recast of trains beyond there to and from the west.  As a example, the 11:11 Westbury to Southampton would probably become an anachronism.  The previous train from Westbury to Southampton is at present 11:01 (yes, just 10 minutes earlier!) and the only extra call that the 11:11 makes is at Dilton Marsh - on request, and that lead to the question "why".   The answer's a good one - the 11:11 provides a connection off the train from Plymouth that calls at Westbury at 11:05, and there's a signiicant flow from Cornwall, Plymouth, Exeter and Taunton to Southampton, Portsmouth, Warminster and Salisbury.  But ... at a retimetable of the main line, new times for West Country expresses at Westbury (hopefully clockface), and you can push back the 11:11 to 11:31.

You'll note I'm not really "on topic" on Wylye here; I'm talking enabling background.  And this background sorts out much else.   Chippenham to Salisbury.  Swindon to Southampton. Dilton Marsh (now a major residential area) communing just about anywhere.  Salisbury to Trowbridge. ... look back at the thread I refer to above, and you'll see me looking over the horizon and beyond current planning periods; long term vision.  There are other long term kites I could fly too - mere speculation at present though - one eye on the far future.   For coming years that's just one eye ... I concentrate on proper TransWilts, where the objective is "regain and retain" and it would be happy days if that "retain" was underpinned by other projects and developements sharing the same services for mutual benefit.

[teamsaint]

Fascinating reply, Grahame, many thanks for that in depth response.
I'm just an interested onlooker really at present, but great to read some really informed thoughts about this.

I take your points. Re Wylye, I suppose I was thinking that it might be useful as it would potentially serve some of the former station  villages along the line. I accept that some of the business it took from say Heytesbury and Wilton would be abstracted from Warminster and Salisbury. however it might make a  regular service much more accessible from Amesbury, Shrewton, Mere and so on.
There might even be potential to tie into Stonehenge, and drive some new business, which with a Park and ride might provide a better (or at least more convenient link than the current Salisbury service.)

Anyway, all just idle speculation on my part.
Great to see the Transwilts plans come to fruition, lets hope the service thrives and expands further.

[grahame]

Fascinating reply, Grahame, many thanks for that in depth response.

My pleasure - the question offered a really good opportunity to look at the wider issues of our southern section. 

In some ways Wiltshire is a single county - the council is always talking "Salisbury, Chippenham and Trowbridge" and there are firm economic and cultural links, but on the other hand the south of the plain section (Salisbury, Amesbury, Tidworth etc) look far more to the Southampton/Solent area as their economic area, whereas west and north Wilts look towards greater Bristol and Bath, and Royal Wootton Bassett, Cricklade, etc, look toward Swindon.  And that Warminster - Salisbury section is almost crossing the border;  I've seen it on borders in Europe - Dutch / {Belgian|German} border where trains run quite frequently up to places like Venlo and Roosendaal, but the international train to Monchengladbach or Antwerpen goes much less often.  From Kaldenkirchen (I recall), and from Essen (I'm sure), there are again many more trains.

Gosh - you've got me going again ... there is extra justification for bringing the Salisbury - Westbury leg up to twice an hour now that our LEP^» (Local Enterprise Partnership - about) (future enterprise area) is SWLEP (Swindon and Wiltshire LEP) and indeed for the more local services that serve Dilton Marsh and other potential moderate to far future aspirations to carry on through to Swindon as part of that service from Westbury.

Great to see the Transwilts plans come to fruition, lets hope the service thrives and expands further.

Isn't it just!    ... you get some idea from the deep nature of what I've been writing (and what I have written is just an overview) of just how MUCH work has gone into all the TransWilts elements to make sure that it really will work well - as a line and as an engine for the economy too.

[grahame]

I'm following up on an old thread head because I noted some "read" activity ... and just to add in a flag for Wilton.

http://transwilts.org/tw/news/91-wilton-parkway-station-survey-open

The desire to re-open a station at Wilton has been an ongoing transport objective for Wilton. There is no possibility of stopping the Exeter main line services at Wilton, but recent proposal has been put forward to put a station at the A36 Park & Ride site which is alongside the Salisbury to Westbury line.

A new First Great Western franchise continuing from 2015 to 2019 has revitalised the case for extending the TransWilts service from Westbury through Salisbury to Southampton Airport. TransWilts CIC^▸ (Community Interest Company ) (incorporates the Community Rail Partnership - see 'About Us' on our web site www.transwilts.org) are proposing an hourly diesel service between Southampton Airport and Swindon, calling at all the regional stations in between including a new station at Wilton. The service would use existing rolling stock from the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) Three Rivers CRP^▸ (Community Rail Partnership), and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) TransWilts and Stroud services. The proposal could provide a service by 2018. As well as a park and ride to Salisbury, the Wilton Station could provide a rail access to Stonehenge being 7 miles by shuttle bus from the visitor centre. The existing P&R^▸ (Park and Ride) facility would serve rail passengers to Salisbury.

The purpose of this survey is to consult widely on the potential demand for the service and understand the demographics of the potential rail passengers. Your participation is important and appreciated. Please participate irrespective of your support or potential as a passenger. If you are a current rail user it would help us if after completing this survey you would also complete our "Wiltshire Train Users Survey" which may be found on the home page of our web site www.transwilts.org

TransWilts CIC objectives include conducting surveys to enable us to provide informed opinions and priorities with stakeholders such as Network Rail, Department of Transport, Franchise Operators (e.g. FGW and SWT), Local Government and Local Enterprise Partnerships. We will publish overall results and compare annual trends, but we will not publish any personal information or data. We will not share your personal details with any third party or organisation. Views will not be attributable to an individual.