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Author Topic: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion  (Read 139190 times)
martyjon
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« Reply #765 on: November 13, 2018, 08:37:08 am »

I googled this last night and was surprised to see the Midland route lasted till 1969 - any justification for keeping it having really disappeared with the Somerset & Dorset earlier in the '60s.

The curves at Westerleigh were put in at - or very shortly after - the opening of the Badminton line. The GWR had running powers to Berkeley Road (the Severn Bridge line being GW/MR Joint, I think).

So the current "Midland" route from Brum to Bristol is a patchwork job (the Gloucester avoiding line also being GW).


The Midland route to Bath Green Park was retained after the S & D closure for coal traffic to Bath gas works until they closed on areas conversion to natural gas.

The Midland line was closed prematurely when an embankment collapsed in the Fishponds area but a section from Yate is still in use today with oil traffic to the Murco oil terminal at Westerleigh.

Westerleigh East Curve I think you will find was a WWII addition but without looking it up in a book I got of the Bristol to Gloucester line cant comment on date of Westerleigh West curve. I think you will find that GWR had running powers over the Midland line from Yate South to Standish Junction as GWR ran services from Bristol to Birkenhead via Cheltenham, Stratford-on-Avon, Birmingham Snow Hill, Wolverhampton Low Level, Shrewsbury, Chester and Birkenhead. 
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #766 on: November 13, 2018, 09:25:50 am »

To add my two penn'orth:

Filton Bank is part of what was the Bristol and South Wales Union Railway (as an aside there were two pubs named after this - one by Stapleton Road Station, and another which is now 'The Farm' in St Werburgh's); this route was never intended to take trains from Bristol to the north.

The route from Bristol to Yate via Mangotsfield was the Bristol and Gloucester Railway, which was built in Brunelian broad gauge and which the GWR hoped to acquire; as it happens the B&G got a better deal from the Midland (which involved them re-gauging and thus avoiding break of gauge at Gloucester for trains heading to Birmingham).

The Midland route - Bristol-Mangotsfield-Yate - is a more direct way from Bristol to the north, and avoids conflicts between east-west and north-south traffic which now have to share the line between Westerleigh and Parkway. It's a moot point whether we would now need four tracks up Filton Bank if they hadn't closed Bristol-Mangotsfield-Yate, but Parkway would be a less useful interchange than it now is.
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metalrail
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« Reply #767 on: November 13, 2018, 09:26:52 am »

Yep until the end of the 60's there were actually 6 tracks coming from the north to Bristol...  new user name anyone?!  Wink

In today's terms, that would mean all the XC services coming directly down thru Yate, Mangotsfield, Staple Hill, Fishponds and then onto BRI, leaving Filton Bank for all the services to both South Wales and the Badminton Line to Paddington

Plus before it closed earlier, the amazing 13 arches viaduct carrying the line from Kingswood Junction south of Fishponds to the 'Clifton Extension Railway' to Montpelier and beyond, with the Severn Beach line continuing on and looping back onto the GWR lines at Pilning and onto Patchway.  As well as the Henbury loop in between

Just think of all the various local services we'd still have if it were all still open...  would be almost like - what do they call them - ah yes, a 'Metro' system!
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Oh for the day when I can catch a train from Mangotsfield to the Centre, Bath and Yate!  ;-)
SandTEngineer
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« Reply #768 on: November 13, 2018, 10:04:02 am »

The connection to the Midland Railway (LMS) line branched off at Bristol East signalbox as seen here at the top of the diagram:

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metalrail
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« Reply #769 on: November 13, 2018, 10:31:53 am »

That picture is amazing!
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Oh for the day when I can catch a train from Mangotsfield to the Centre, Bath and Yate!  ;-)
grahame
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« Reply #770 on: November 13, 2018, 11:28:24 am »

The connection to the Midland Railway (LMS) line branched off at Bristol East signalbox as seen here at the top of the diagram:

Lovely picture.  Do I see that it was possible for a train to or from any of the three lines (Midland, Filton, Bath) to and from any of the platforms, and all via flat junctions.

Which gets the thinking that over time the number of platforms required relative to station throat capacity must have changed?    Looking back xxx years, trains came in, people got off, train was cleaned, things serviced and the same rake of coaches went back quite some time later.   These days, not only do we have much more frequent services, but also rolling stock doesn't need as much inter-jouney attention and so there's less of it, more intensely used.   Logic suggests that we need more throat per platform these days - or is that counteracted by the removal of light engine movements?

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Dispatch Box
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« Reply #771 on: November 13, 2018, 12:01:29 pm »

Its actually about 300m North of MULLER ROAD bridge (wherever that might be).
If you looked it up on Google Maps (or something similar) an approximate postcode would be BS7 9NZ which takes you into a retail park: the bridge in question is next to the southern end of said retail park as are some allotments.

after looking at the picture from dave harries that signal BL1818 does look a bit too tall and weired, could,nt they have just replaced the head to 4 aspect and added a junction indicator to the old one, would of been much cheaper. lastly just noticed the ones in the picture of the gantry look like the elite type, much nicer.
Interesting point. The same applies to Signals BL1981 on the line from Bath Spa, just before Bristol East Junctio: BL1981 is, for whatever reason, taller than BL1983.

Love the pictures, what is that thing we can see the back of, is it a new style banner repeater?.

Yes. Its BL1812BR.

I hope they are leaving the banners for signal BL1580 as I loved seeing them off from a train, I assume signal BL1580 will be left as it is needed to route trains into filton by now having the pos 1 junction indicator for the turnout just beyond the station and the position 4 indicator for the route towards Bristol parkways platform 1. Sandt plans did not show signal positions on.

Affraid not.  They are abolished.  BL1850 remains as before (but without its POSITION 4 JUNCTION INDICATOR), but is renewed due to the track slew.
Pity to see the BRs for BL1580 go as I also used to look at them when passing. I guess they will be kept for spares.

On another point I am surprised that, when I last looked over the weekend just gone, nothing has been done with BL1815 which is the starting signal for trains from Lawrence Hill towards Doctor Days Junction. This signal has been supported by a metal pole for some time so I am surprised that no opportunity has been taken to replace it.

Dave

BL1815 is a signal that has pos 1 2 3 4 Junction Indicators on, or it did when I last looked, it probably is alright, Any way better than the ones we have in Gloucester as those have been there for so long that the bare metal now shows on many of them, G154 plus its pos 1 ji G54 G58 G52 G50 are some examples, Also G133 that a route indicator that has gone green and now the routes no longer show through.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 12:09:22 pm by Dispatch Box » Logged
SandTEngineer
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« Reply #772 on: November 13, 2018, 12:38:49 pm »

BL1815 only has Position 1, 2 and 3 JUNCTION INDICATORS.  There has never been a main route from there to the UP FILTON RELIEF towards BRISTOL EAST JUNCTION, only a subsidiary one preceeded by shunt signal BL6625 leading to BARROW ROAD DEPOT.

Not at all supprised by the condition of signals at Gloucester.  NR has no money for maintenance renewals these days (although might get a little bit in CP6).
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 12:45:40 pm by SandTEngineer » Logged

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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #773 on: November 13, 2018, 12:53:50 pm »

Just for Grahames benefit.  This is what it all used to look like.  As well as the bits you can see there were also scissor crossings in the main platforms in the train shed that allowed two trains to access/egress to each part at any one time.

You can also just make out the Midland (LMS) line heading away top right behind the gas holders.  Look at the size of the goods shed as well.  Anybody remember that?

And just to make sure we stay on topic the Filton lines head away north at the extreme right top.

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Out of this nettle, Danger, we pluck this flower, Safety.
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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #774 on: November 13, 2018, 01:01:04 pm »

.....and here is the left hand end of the BRISTOL EAST signalbox diagram that you can't see in the earlier photograph.  Note that BRISTOL OLD STATION had been abolished by then and its tracks/signals abolished, so that dates the photograph to sometime in the mid-1960s.



...and a low resolution drawing of the whole layout here: https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwb/S586.htm
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 03:03:39 pm by SandTEngineer » Logged

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« Reply #775 on: November 13, 2018, 01:04:04 pm »

BL1815 only has Position 1, 2 and 3 JUNCTION INDICATORS.  There has never been a main route from there to the UP FILTON RELIEF towards BRISTOL EAST JUNCTION, only a subsidiary one preceeded by shunt signal BL6625 leading to BARROW ROAD DEPOT.

Not at all supprised by the condition of signals at Gloucester.  NR has no money for maintenance renewals these days (although might get a little bit in CP6).


I have just been told that under CP6 That Network Rail are planning to resignal Gloucester and Cheltenham within the next 18 months, The plan he said was to put the ine from Charfield to Churchdown onto TVSC And the line on towards Birmingham on to WMSC.


Does anybody know if signal BL1511 At Bristol Parkway being replaced.


Lastly the open train times map is now now out of date for the filton lines. Some signals seem to be showing OFF, when they shouldnt be.


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stuving
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« Reply #776 on: November 13, 2018, 01:13:00 pm »

What else you can see in the aerial photo is the big shed - GWR's Temple MillsMeads Goods stationDepot - north of the passenger one. And if you know where to look, you can see the MR equivalent at St Philip's, where there was also a very small passenger station.

The siding - approaching from the north - left the GW on the west side (as visible in your photos) and passed under the Midland. It then curved round to the west and rose up to join the Midland's line. As you say, it went to St Philips but you could get to Temple Meads as well.

Going back to the current vestigial siding on part of the MR line and connected to Filton Bank (ex GWR), there is no sign of such a connection in any of the OS maps up to the 30s. Once the MR tracks turned off north before Bristol east Junction, they were hermetically separate from GWR's ones all the way out of town. There were GWR sidings beside Lawrence Hill station, but the surveyors never saw any connection. Of course there could have been one made at any time during or after the war, if not when the MR lines were closed.

There was, however, an earlier link via a chord off the north of the MR line down to Filton Bank northwards. That was taken up around 1900 - funny thing, inter-railway relations.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 03:18:05 pm by stuving » Logged
SandTEngineer
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« Reply #777 on: November 13, 2018, 01:14:18 pm »

BL1815 only has Position 1, 2 and 3 JUNCTION INDICATORS.  There has never been a main route from there to the UP FILTON RELIEF towards BRISTOL EAST JUNCTION, only a subsidiary one preceeded by shunt signal BL6625 leading to BARROW ROAD DEPOT.

Not at all supprised by the condition of signals at Gloucester.  NR has no money for maintenance renewals these days (although might get a little bit in CP6).


I have just been told that under CP6 That Network Rail are planning to resignal Gloucester and Cheltenham within the next 18 months, The plan he said was to put the ine from Charfield to Churchdown onto TVSC And the line on towards Birmingham on to WMSC.

Does anybody know if signal BL1511 At Bristol Parkway being replaced.


Lastly the open train times map is now now out of date for the filton lines. Some signals seem to be showing OFF, when they shouldnt be.

BL1511 signal isn't being renewed but will be fitted with a flashing double yellow aspect once the Filton project is completed in the new year 2019.

There are some big NR boundary changes going to take place in the Gloucester/Cheltenham area in 2019.  I've not heard of any resignalling plans for that area yet and I would think that "in the next 18 months" probably means the start of design work only....
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Out of this nettle, Danger, we pluck this flower, Safety.
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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #778 on: November 13, 2018, 01:15:36 pm »

If you look here there is an excellent section on the area we are discussing and the topic as well!

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/bristol-tm-to-severn-beach.html
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Out of this nettle, Danger, we pluck this flower, Safety.
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Dispatch Box
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« Reply #779 on: November 13, 2018, 01:28:51 pm »

If you look here there is an excellent section on the area we are discussing and the topic as well!

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/bristol-tm-to-severn-beach.html


Thanks for the pictures there, it showed signal no BL1815 With its pos 1 2 3 indicators on and another on the filton down when it was previously there,One thing why was the filton lines removed, only to cost NR loads of money to put back, there is so much waste in this country.Not to mention the contents of a bin bag in my kitchen full of unnessary
 packaging.
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