Call for faster, non-stop expresses from Wales to London

[whole diary]

[Btline]

Your alternate stopping pattern allows long distance journeys from these places but it would be impossible to travel from Swindon to Didcot or Swindon to Chippenham.

Eh? Re -read my post!

I personally would keep the no of stops on each train constant so there can be an every 20 minute service taking the same time (a la Virgin on Birmingham services). So one would call at Didcot, Swindon, one at Swindon Chippenham, one at Didot, Chippenham (all at Reading and Bath).

Also remember that those stopping patterns are just for Bristol trains. The Cardiff trains could do other combinations and boost other local links from Swindon: e.g. one Didcot and Swindon, one Newport and Swindon and the other Newport and Dicot (all Cardiff, Bristol Parkway and Reading).

Passenger nos will soar if you start cutting stops. InterCity traffic is quicker and less overcrowded, frequencies at smaller stations remain the same and their journey times go down too.

There is no need for any local service to London. A Bristol to Milton Keynes service could cover new small stations at Corsham, Wooten Basset, Grove and Wantage etc.

[ellendune]

OK but still a poorer service.  Much better if we could fit some local services in.  Like a Bristol TM^‡(resolve) to Oxford.

[Btline]

OK but still a poorer service.  Much better if we could fit some local services in.  Like a Bristol TM^‡(resolve) to Oxford.

Why would it be poorer? Same frequency, faster journey times, same journey opportunities and connections.

[John R]

OK but still a poorer service.  Much better if we could fit some local services in.  Like a Bristol TM^‡(resolve) to Oxford.

Agree. To go back to the point about whether they can be fitted in, I notice that London Midland's 110mph emus do the 97 miles from Euston to Nuneaton in 69 minutes with 2 intermediate stops. That compares with 125mph HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s also taking 69 minutes for the 94 miles to Chippenham with 2 stops. OK, granted that IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) will be more fleet of foot than HST's, but the Class 350s are up against tilting Pendolinos, so it shows what can be done with a bit of imagination (and dare I say it, competition between operators).

Another useful intermediate service would be one calling at Severn Tunnel Jn to Bristol Parkway and Swindon. Currently those using STJ^▸ (Severn Tunnel Junction railway station) as a railhead station from Monmouthshire and the southern Forest of Dean don't have a convenient journey option to London. 

[grahame]

There is no need for any local service to London. A Bristol to Milton Keynes service could cover new small stations at Corsham, Wooten Basset, Grove and Wantage etc.

I can't speak for Grove and Wantage, but my various contacts in Corsham and Royal Wootten Bassett would differ somewhat from that view. Not only do you have the 'normal' town passengers, but in each case you have major MOD employment (Corsham and the new training centre at Lyneham from RWB) which biases the metrics towards a higher proportion of long distance journeys, and somewhat Londoncentric.

[ellendune]

Agree. To go back to the point about whether they can be fitted in, I notice that London Midland's 110mph emus do the 97 miles from Euston to Nuneaton in 69 minutes with 2 intermediate stops. That compares with 125mph HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s also taking 69 minutes for the 94 miles to Chippenham with 2 stops. OK, granted that IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) will be more fleet of foot than HST's, but the Class 350s are up against tilting Pendolinos, so it shows what can be done with a bit of imagination (and dare I say it, competition between operators).

I hope it can be fitted in with an EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit).

Another useful intermediate service would be one calling at Severn Tunnel Jn to Bristol Parkway and Swindon. Currently those using STJ^▸ (Severn Tunnel Junction railway station) as a railhead station from Monmouthshire and the southern Forest of Dean don't have a convenient journey option to London.  

An excellent idea.

[Btline]

The key barrier to growth is getting Crossrail open, extending it to Reading and switching the Heathrow Express to run as part of Crossrail.

Then all Slough stops, etc, can be removed from the fast lines, allowing for 16 tph express London to Reading which can funnel out to various destinations (including local services to Wooten B and Severn Tunnel).

The minute you stop a train on the fast lines between Padd to Reading, you reduce the capacity by at least one path.

There wil be less of a demand for fast line trains from Slough after Crossrail, as the EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) will be super fast at accelerating (compensating for the stops) and most commuters won't have to change onto the underground to get to their destination.

I'm sure semi fast trains will run out to Reading, reducing journey times for Maidenhead commuters.

[Electric train]

The key barrier to growth is getting Crossrail open, extending it to Reading and switching the Heathrow Express to run as part of Crossrail.

Then all Slough stops, etc, can be removed from the fast lines, allowing for 16 tph express London to Reading which can funnel out to various destinations (including local services to Wooten B and Severn Tunnel).

The minute you stop a train on the fast lines between Padd to Reading, you reduce the capacity by at least one path.

There wil be less of a demand for fast line trains from Slough after Crossrail, as the EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) will be super fast at accelerating (compensating for the stops) and most commuters won't have to change onto the underground to get to their destination.

I'm sure semi fast trains will run out to Reading, reducing journey times for Maidenhead commuters.

Not quite true as far as Slough goes a lot of folks commute to / from Oxford on the fasts, it could be argued that even Maidenhead could justify a number of fasts stopping during the day even after Crossrail

[grahame]

Is it just me, or am I seeing something of an outdated view being expressed in certain quarters in thinking that all commuters want to go to London, and that the counties to the west of London, once you get out of the suburbs, are green fields, moors, downs and farms all the way to Bristol?

Wiltshire, where I live, sometimes describes itself as a "rural county" but that's misleading, as the majority of the population here - and that population is growing - now lives in the urban areas - Salisbury, Chippenham, Trowbridge, Melksham and Warminster being the largest five, and that "mostly urban" label still applies even after Swindon ceded to become its own local urban authority.

People travel, often daily, between those towns and beyond - there's no sudden divide at any border and they need to have good transport links between those towns, and to Bath, to Bristol, to Southampton, to Oxford, to Taunton, to Newbury, to Andover, to Yeovil, to Cardiff, to Exeter, to Reading.

[Electric train]

Is it just me, or am I seeing something of an outdated view being expressed in certain quarters in thinking that all commuters want to go to London, and that the counties to the west of London, once you get out of the suburbs, are green fields, moors, downs and farms all the way to Bristol?

Wiltshire, where I live, sometimes describes itself as a "rural county" but that's misleading, as the majority of the population here - and that population is growing - now lives in the urban areas - Salisbury, Chippenham, Trowbridge, Melksham and Warminster being the largest five, and that "mostly urban" label still applies even after Swindon ceded to become its own local urban authority.

People travel, often daily, between those towns and beyond - there's no sudden divide at any border and they need to have good transport links between those towns, and to Bath, to Bristol, to Southampton, to Oxford, to Taunton, to Newbury, to Andover, to Yeovil, to Cardiff, to Exeter, to Reading.

I agree Grahame, its a pain in the neck for anyone to commute say Maidenhead / Newbury or Slough / Swindon as for anyone that wants to do Newbury / Oxford ......... well I guess that's what to old iron road is now the tarmac'd A34

[Tim]

.. I agree Grahame.  40 years ago the Reading commuters were almost all travelling Reading to London.  Nowadays there are almost as many people commuting TO Reading as FROM Reading and in recent years it seems that this effect of starting to spread West.  This is all good for balanced development in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) and if managed properly it is good for the railway.  It means that seats that are used for commuting to and from London are much less likely to be empty as they get away from the capital.  They get used again for other commuter flows into other cities. 

The other change is that, relatively speaking, peak time 5 day a week commuting is becoming less important.  Part time commuting, trips to schools and colleges, business trips and shopping and tourism trips are all now big parts of the mix.  Put them together and it helps to smooth out some of the peaks and troughs.

 

[TonyK]

All very true. Bristol is likely to have two major centres for commuting when some of the new offices around Temple Meads open for business, the other being Abbey Wood. Trains to both from South Wales, Weston s Mare and Bath are already heavily used. Rail features heavily in plans for the future - what chance of reinstating the left turn from Montpelier to Ashley Down?

[TonyK]

All very true, but there are so many competing voices crying out for attention. Bristol is likely to have two major centres for commuting when some of the new offices around Temple Meads open for business, the other being Abbey Wood. Trains to both from South Wales, Weston s Mare and Bath are already heavily used. Rail features heavily in plans for the future - what chance of reinstating the left turn from Montpelier to Ashley Down?

How did I quote myself? Operator error seems the most likely reason.

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

  . . . and do not forget Didcot with its enormous and continually growing employment centre at Milton Park. Although there are Didcot people who work at Milton Park, I t5hink the majority of its workers come from miles around. There are certainly many who come from Cotswold Line area but only a small proportion use public transport because they have to change at Oxford and then at Didcot for the shuttle bus, meaning that it is usually quicker to use a private car (A34 foul-ups excepted).

[Tim]

We should also remember that journey times are not just about train speed.  The time taken to buy a ticket and get through barrier or find a space in the station car park also impact on door to door journey time.

Some of those things might be addressable (for example by using smart card ticketing) at far lower cost than raising line speed or removing stops.